Good to see independent local business under attack.

joust

@Scruffy
Did you just say that if someone opened a cafe celebrating Hitler, people shouldn't protest it?

People should be able to protest.

minim

My only contribution to this thread will be to say I agree with everything @jacula has said.

Scruffy

@joust Of course people can protest, and rightfully so; but they can protest OUTSIDE, without being a bloody nuisance. Why would Hitler be a particular exception, hmmm? Aside from my previous list (chosen from thousands—I didn’t like the others, they were all too flet), what about Gengis Khan, Robert Donat, Arthur “Bomber” Harris, Stalin, Edward I (did unspeakable things to people’s—exclusively men’s, in fact—testiclae), Richard Carpenter, Victoria “Empress of India” von Fakkin’-Saxe-Coburg-proto-Nazi-Gotha? “Queen Vic”, eh? Right then, let’s ban Eastenders (how I’d love to!) and stop memorialising an unelected head of state and figurehead of the same empire that Churchill treasured, and rename the style and period that have been named after her accordingly.

Arkady

I'm actually quite fond of Napoleon and the Napoleon Hotel in Soho has an excellent cocktail bar.

Scruffy

@Brodiej I agree with you (and thanks for the plaudit, @krappyrubsnif —nice to get such a comment from a pro). A business owner might worry about losing customers if his or her expressed views (or venue themes) are unpopular (I don’t think I’d patronise Café Third Reich, myself), but shouldn’t have to fear having his or her business disrupted because of them.

@jacula I think you’re absolutely right about the bizarre press that this incident received, and it’s sad to think that the hacks believe (and they probably know), that there are people stupid enough to agree with the racist and spurious political slants they’ve fabricated.

Scruffy

@arkady I demand you become a former customer of that cocktail bar and join me this afternoon there to protest against memorialising a self-serving, over-ambitious, self-proclaimed Emperor who threatened that awfleh naice British Empire… er… ummm… maybe just a cocktail or two then?i

Arkady

@Scruffy - Let's have the next Stroud Green social there. Mine's a French 75.

HolbornFox

You must have been completely wankered if you thought you were in Soho.

Thirdeariespace

Honestly, I have an ambivalent attitude to Blighty - I actually like the food, it's one of the better breakfasts in the area, but the colonialist theme is unpleasant to say the least. I have sympathy for the protest to a certain extent, even if on the balance I still go to the place.

And yes, the newspaper coverage is racially tinged and way out of proportion.

Scruffy

Colonialist theme? I think the discussions may have muddied the waters for you, @Thirdeariespace . Unless it's changed since I was last there, Blighty celebrates things we associate with living in Britain during WW II (Spitfires, mess tins and Messerschmitts), and I don't think there is an overtly colonialist theme. If they're looking for colonial themes, those protesters ought to take a look at the Albert Memorial in Kensington.

krappyrubsnif

I don't know why the protestors pick on ancient history instead of modern examples of colonialism: the price of a tee shirt made in the far east, for example; the coffee trade; blood diamonds. We are immersed in it. Picture book imperialism is an easy target, I suppose (but pointless).

jacula

Hi @Scruffy and all - I think that the crux of this protest has been about whether this is colonialism or not. The original article referenced a letter that the protesters had sent to David Lammy regarding not the FP branch but the newer second venue in Tottenham, called Blighty India. That venue, according to their own website, serves The Winston full english alongside Bengali Breakfast Bombay Hash.

If you were someone, as my friends are, who had lost family in the Bengal Famine of 1943 which Churchill had a major hand in creating, mightn't you find that deeply offensive? Even calling it a Bengali Breakfast - sheesh.

On the whole, FWIW, I'm inclined to believe that the cafe owners have good intentions and think this is all just kitschy fun. However, it's also very clear to me to why offence has been caused and personally, if I were the owners, I'd have acknowledged some fault by now and apologised for being tone deaf.

And @krappyrubsnif, it's not ancient history - it's 75 years since the famine in Bengal, living memory for millions of Indian people.

While I agree with the general sentiment that there are more important/timely things to protest, the protesters clearly have every right to choose their battles themselves. The people who are accountable to us are the journalists and the politicians, not private citizens. I'm surprised by the posts that have criticised the protesters' choices because I'm much more outraged that our Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs has found the time to condemn this peacfeul protest, but has nothing to say on the homeless people freezing to death on our streets this winter... That's a choice that I think we should all be sickened by.

HolbornFox

I find it amazing that when some random doofuses get their faces into the paper the thing you notice is that one of them is non-white with a foreign name, and then claim everyone else is racist.

grenners

That's what I was thinking. Despite being the ring leader of the protest and being the SOAS union co-president of equality and liberation......seems there is an assumption racism is to blame.

grenners

That's what I was thinking. Despite being the ring leader of the protest and being the SOAS union co-president of equality and liberation......seems there is an assumption racism is to blame.

miss annie

I have to look at Cromwell's hideous face every time I go past, or into, the Houses of Parliament. Cromwell killed (personally in some cases) a number of my and my friend's Irish ancestors in his purges. I would be extremely happy to see that statue melted down and to vomit over the remnants, and I find it incredibly offensive that he still stands being praised as a hero by those who do not support the Monarchy.

Everyone is offended by some episode in history, I don't think that standing in a local café and shouting is a very effective protest against Churchill's crimes though.

HolbornFox

It's obviously on the current approved list to hate Churchill, i have noticed it over the past 2 or 3 years from the quinoa and rooibos mandem.

miss annie

He was an excellent wartime general. Not so great in peacetime which is why they hoofed him out. I don't think anyone else would have steered the country through WW2 as effectively as Churchill, you can hate him all you like but without him we would almost certainly have been defeated - and no, I have not seen the Gary Oldman film.

joust

...and mussolini made the trains run on time.

miss annie

He did yes, they still have an excellent and remarkably cheap rail service with Eurostar trains running on many inter city lines.

He was a shockingly poor military leader compared to Churchill though - the Italian army were recruited badly, led poorly and equipped with outdated armaments.

Scruffy

If all the fuss is about Blighty India, why were they protesting in Blighty Café? Even if Blighty India is as kitschy and light-hearted as the Café, I can understand people being offended by positive references to Churchill and the British in India, in light of what the British did over there—so the simple solution for anyone who would feel indignant is not to patronise Blighty India; the owners still have a right to theme the place however they please, and customers can choose whether to go there (and enjoy the place in peace).

If one wants to condemn colonialism, why not target present, active colonialism (or good ol' plain nationalist aggression)?

@jacula, Boris being a demagogic, publicity-seeking arse of a clown (who would have to be an utter idiot to believe—and I'm sure he doesn't—the cheap appeals he makes to popular sentiment) is hardly news, so when he got up on his hind legs yet again I just sighed and rolled my eyes.

HolbornFox

Given that a lot of my family were from Eastern Europe I am tempted to firebomb Herman ze German, how dare they celebrate bratwürst.

Ali

We should also remember that Churchill created the Black and Tan during the Irish rebellion or fight for freedom

krappyrubsnif

I am at the Tate Gallery. *Gulp*. Sugar money - funded by the slave trade. Think I'll have me a demo.

grenners

Blighty Cafe is now 14th best cafe in London according to trip advisor. Seems a lot of supporters have boosted the ratings. Great publicity stunt.

HolbornFox

I suspect you are not the only one who wondered about that @grenners

grenners

The original article about a mural taken down sometime ago and a few weirdos stating a petition against the seven sisters branch was combined into one article as a publicity stunt. This seemed to prompt a demonstration and it took off even further.

libertyhall

The simple point is that for all his many faults had it not been for Churchill’s tenacity at that time this country would have been under the nazi jackboot no chance of this kind of protest then.

joust

That's a silly argument.

miss annie

Why @joust?
Just saying it's silly isn't really making a point. If you dispute his ability to successfully lead a country through a world war and negotiate with other nations to do so, at least give us your suggestion of a counter military strategy and alternative leader in those circumstances.