Election Day Thread

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  • IanIan
    edited 12:31PM
    @Andy. It's an in and out of work benefit i.e. you can get it if you are in work and low paid, although there is a taper on it which removes the benefit according to income. It is based on average rental prices in the area and there are allowances according to whether you have children, how many in the family etc. If you are single and under 25 it is quite restricted unless you are a single parent, disabled or just out of care. Housing benefit has traditionally been seen as a problem with work incentives, due to the size of the taper (poverty trap issues) and the size of the benefit, particularly in high rental cost areas. As to the full pros and cons - probably best for me to pontificate in the bar next time I see you.
  • edited 12:31PM
    Yeah, I'm on housing benefit, and I was still surprised that it could go that high.
  • AliAli
    edited 12:31PM
    Notice that the Justice Department is cutting Haringey Magistrates' Court at Highgate don't know if that means much
  • edited 12:31PM
    Who was it who said ? ‘words are not enough’?

    @Arkady - my point was to criticise your Liberals and they are even bigger target now than before the election [ironic given the loss of seats] This needn't always require me to furnish an alternative idea. In your facing-all-directions-at-once bubble that might be confusing. Perhaps you're lashing after being suckered in to a Tory govt. by your party that now stands for so much of what you didn't vote for and the great LIberal tradition is a looking blue-lipped. There are numerous Liberal heads in sand for certain.

    @ADGS what Tory stereotype was that? - the one that says they all hate poor people, or anyone different from themselves. or the one that says they hate paying for an NHS and BUPA, state schools and school fees. Or the one that truly believes Labour ran up the national debt all by itself without any help from incompetent Tory-voting bankers and without the need to re-balance UK's investment in infrastructure and public services after more than a decade of neglect by guess who?

    Tell me this budget was ALL about economics and not ideology
    from a Cabinet of millionaires [23 out of 30 approx.] Tell me you heard a cacophonous support around 'our country' as George likes to call it for his budget speech which 'rescued' us from the brink despite being the first in many years that didn't talk about creating jobs.

    Of course these are ‘new’ ideas from a self- branded 'progressive coalition' marketed as honest and fair. No one was pretending cuts weren't necessary or imminent, the country knew that yet Nick,Dave & George have spent 50 days reiterating the obvious in a Smarm Campaign to make us believe they are a solution. The question of implementation looms large as always.

    The interesting figures compare like this:

    Previous govt. planned to halve the debt over next four years and had projected a deficit by 2014 of 1.4trillion - remember they were to pass a law requiring any Govt. to halve the deficit in that period.
    This new govt. are making cuts at approx 150% of that proposed scale and their LibCon. projected deficit for 2014 is 1.3trillion.
    [worth it?]

    This 'emergency coalition' budget will take £2bil. from the banks and £13bil. in VAT from the rest of us - disproportionately most from the poor. [fair?] Explain the logic in increasing a tax on consumption whilst at the same time making sure we all have less to spend. [ To yield the same amount of tax revenue from less expenditure perhaps? - surely this 'tough' budget is not a smoke screen ]

    Boy that showed the private sector, I bet they won’t misbehave again especially now the FSA is being placed within the Bank of England and they are on ‘trust’ to regulate themselves. Oh, and the small matter of £30plus-bil. being removed from the economy - e.g introducing medical assessment for every disabled person to check that they are still disabled [ ‘So you still blind or what?! How come you need Sunglasses ' or 'If you're deaf how come you just heard the doorbell!' ] Intimidate them off their benefits.

    Choking the money supply and higher unemployment are pre-requisites for this to work. [ Still it's handy to deal with rebels - ask Chile the only other country to use a similar economic strategy etc. and then sell the idea to Thatcher - we have been here before!]

    Flatten the public sector where salaries have been frozen and 100,000 jobs have already gone in last two years – but hey what did the public sector ever do for us? - ok apart from free health, the emergency services, free schools,[ i.e a no payment required not a 'Free School' where pushy parents pool mater & pater's inheritance/capital gain from second home and set up something nice for their kids with match funds from the taxpayers money] etc. etc.

    Again, who was it who said ? ‘words are not enough’
    Not Nick or Dave that's for sure that would require an original script. Saw their display on TV last night they really really are the Smug Brothers. Nick's point about children, grand children having to pay down our debt was vomit-worthy. What the hell have we done for a national debt that stems back to 1917 at least - it's not really something you get a choice in - typically deceitful of Clegg to sound caring whilst avoiding a question. He's a chinless lying careerist much like Cameron.
  • AliAli
    edited 12:31PM
    I did think that ADGS must be a bit of a masochist being on housing benefit and faithfully supporting the LibDems. I think we will see the effects of this on our local streets. I remember what it was like around here before Labour got back in. There were a lot more beggars and homeless people around and burglary was pretty endemic etc. I guess it will also impact the small shops and local restaurants so look out for closures !
  • edited 12:31PM
    Interesting analysis from the Institute for Fiscal Studies: <http://www.ifs.org.uk/budgets/budgetjune2010/browne.pdf>; Page 15 is pretty striking.
  • edited 12:31PM
    I don't really care which way the bankers were voting - the point is that New Labour were desperately, cravenly courting their vote, whether they got it or not. Similarly, why stick up for the FSA? It wasn't some great and ancient institution, it was one government old. And during that brief reign, we saw the biggest financial meltdown in decades - which I'd say was a fairly clear indicator that the FSA was not fit for purpose.

    Similarly, New Labour were already bent on privatising Jobseeker's - I very narrowly escaped the workhouse lite programmes which resulted. Intimidating people off benefits? That was already well underway. Which is precisely why I place no faith in them as they were, or as they would have been had they clung on. What they might become after a rethink, and if they make the right choice of leader - well that's a different matter.

    As for general support for the budget - the only poll I've seen was quoting 59% in favour. Even with modern house prices, that's an awful lot of millionaires. Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm in favour of it - especially with the climbdown on CGT - but I do think it's better than New Labour would have managed (they'd have had to find the money to fund eg ID cards as well, and were rumoured to be contemplating the VAT rise themselves), and definitely better than a Tory budget not ameliorated by the Lib Dems would have been. So I sure as Hell don't regret my vote. And hey, better chinless than eyeless.
  • edited June 2010
  • edited 12:31PM
    While I can fully appreciate the support for Labour as the party of fairness and the working man, that is a fallacy. Yes, Britain unarguably improved in terms of quality of life and what it looked like from 1997, but then looking at the economic cycle it would have done that anyway. Brown as Chancellor and PM ruled over a nation where the gap between poor and rich spread hugely, house prices spiralled beyond the reach of the common man, personal debt rocketed and the City, which he boasted was the centre of the world's finance, played a major part in bringing the world economy to its knees. And the FSA was hopeless throughout, while the Bank of England warned. This was a crisis born of the western world living beyond its means and a purely economic one. Brown was in charge of the economy and did nothing to discourage the illusion of wealth through overborrowing, because he wanted to one day become PM. Also by the time we hit 2005, Labour were a long way to the right of the Tories. Unfortunately, Labour indicated that were they re-elected they would not have dealt with the mess we were in swiftly and clearly. This would have been catastrophic for the UK and Labour. The best thing that has happened to the party is being voted out to regather their thinking. The country needs a strong Labour party and it wasn't going to get one if they limped on in power. The cuts are painful, but they are necessary. And the vast majority of the Tory manifesto that offered some sops to the wealthier, or even just London and the South has been ditched. Inheritance tax pledge dropped and CGT put up, for example. Higher earners will also pay more under this Budget. Labour would have put up VAT to 20% and had to cut back in the public sector. Their economic decisions would simply have been hidden, convoluted and inefficient - see previous Budgets and such works of genius as the 10p tax rate farce. I just hope they don't end up with their equivalent of the Conservative years in the wilderness, or the obnoxious Ed Balls as their leader
  • AliAli
    edited 12:31PM
    Ally Pally Fireworks have been cut and cancelled
  • edited 12:31PM
    Nooooooo, say it ain't so! I love the fireworks.
  • edited 12:31PM
    A bit late to the budget party - but fully agree with the post from James above. Page 14 & 15 of that IFS PDF are pretty clear indication of where Conservative priorities lie - and it's not looking after the poorest people in the country. Another point, which I think has been raised earlier, is that neither the Lib Dems and the Conservatives stood for cutting the deficit within the single parliament term during the election. No one suggested it and no one voted for this approach so what mandate exactly do they have for the scale of the outlined cuts? Anyway, crying over spilt milk and all that...
  • IanIan
    edited 12:31PM
    @Ali. This age of austerity is going to be rubbish isn't it? Even during the war you had pretty lights in the sky to look at. We could help with suggestions for the council to make cuts a la Clegg. Any ideas? I'd obviously start with pointless speed bumps ...
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