Development of John Jones Site - Local discussion Discussions on stroudgreen.org

Arkady

They were moving them earlier in the week to create more pavement space - the workman said he was employed to do it by the council 'because it was dangerous'.

Arkady

I hear that the John Jones planning app. meeting has been put back to October.

Has anyone heard anything about the neighbouring 'Vista' development?

Kate Jones

So... after months of our application being delayed we finally had a committee meeting last night and it was refused. Flat. Whole thing took about 20 minutes. After over a year of discussions with Islington, going back and forth with the Planning Officer until they were satisfied with the scheme, we don't really understand how it can have been recommended by the planning office and then turned down flat, but I guess thats how it goes.

We are waiting for the official report but the key reasons given were:
1) 14 trees being removed (they ignored the replacement scheme that we have put in)
2) 6 storeys too high for the area (fair enough it is a big scheme but they conveniently forgot that the building under construction next to us is 6 storeys)

We were pretty disappointed with the way the members behaved - very dismissive and actually downright rude.

We really don't want to leave Finsbury Park, but unfortunately this is one of the options we have to look at. And actually from the way they behaved last night, Islington don't seem to care about John Jones being here anyway - or the 100 staff that we have. What a shame, we're really gutted...

Domino

Oh sorry kate. I thought it was a bit tall at first but kind of got used to it and thought it would be so much better than what's there. It's very negative result and awful after all the work that's gone into it.

Is it because there are new councillors on the Planning Committee I wonder and planners weren't getting the right steer.

sincers

This sounds ridiculous - particularly when you wait for a year, to then be dismissed in such a way after 20 minutes. I'm sure there must be a detailed explanation from whomever thinks they're representing the area, but they must recognise the dire need to develop the site. ...an I've no idea about the due process on such schemes, and this probably sounds naive, but can't elements of design be "negotiated"?

Ian

That's disappointing. I thought it was a good development and would be really good for that bit of the area.

Arkady

What a shower. Can you appeal?

JoeV

I don't understand the reasoning behind the denial. If 6 storeys is too high why were two 21 storey tower blocks approved a block away in City North site?

miss annie

Disgraceful!
Even if they didn't like the plans, they should have treated you with the courtesy you clearly deserve having put so much time and care into your application. Good luck if you appeal.

andy

Thing is, this just shows an utter lack of any wider plan. You've got City North, Park Theatre, "Vista" and John Jones - that could all utterly transform the area if thought about more strategically. Yet they seem to be making decisions on individual cases without reference to any sort of context. It's so blinkered.

Unlucky Kate. Press on.

Arkady

@ Andy - this despite the fact that there is a Finsbury Park masterplan. John Jones' plan fitted it well. I could cry.

MaddyP

The refusal of this scheme is ironic, given the sort of crass developments that DO end up getting built (such as the monstrous Arena retail park - sorry, I'm a Harringay resident.)The local residents appealed vigorously against that, but it was approved by the Secretary of State for the Environment (or something) and there was nothing we could do. So maybe you can go over Islington's heads, Kate?

I think, speaking from a distance of course, that the John Jones development sounds brilliant news for a frankly seedy and insalubrious area that could do with a makeover.

Kate Jones

Thank you so much to everyone - you've made us feel that we are actually wanted in the area and how the local community feels is more important to us than Islington committee members (although unfortunately they make the end decision...)

Looks like we are going to appeal and find at what can be done. It seems there is an emerging policy coming out on Student Accomodation - but it won't be in place for about 9 months. We suspect they are trying to put us off until the point that this policy applies to our scheme. One of the committee members made a really nasty allegation that we were trying to 'fly under the wire' before the policy is in place - again ignoring the fact that we've actually been speaking to the planning office for coming up to six years now... he also made a sneering comment about our vision for a clerkenwell style warehouse. Clearly not a fan of art and picture framing!

We've been speaking with Jez Bond of the future Park Theatre about developing a "Cultural Quarter" that brings together all the various arts and culture organisations in the area - University of the Arts were interested in taking on the student accomodation which would be a massive boost and generate some really exciting collaboration potential - could completely transform the area.

I'll keep you posted...

Papa L

Nice to see the new council is proving itself to be no less moronic than the old one.

Good luck if you decide to keep fighting. Exactly how six storeys is too high a couple of hundred metres from two planned huge tower blocks is beyond me.

As others have said, improving this area should also be a priority. The council owes you a detailed explanation.

sincers

Maybe they want a style more in keeping with the local area - ie. lovely single story, yellow buildings or garden shed-style retail units with torn bituminous roofs.

Thomas

the wells terrace favela never fails to amaze me. how did those guys ever get planning permision on what should be prime land just outside the busiest station outside zone 1???

helen

keep going Katie and tell us what you need from us as/when the time arises. I'm not sure the people's representatives actually have any idea what the people want, but maybe we can help!

Arkady

I share Helen's sentiment - if you need local support do shout out.

Kate Jones

Thanks everyone - when we get closer to the appeal (apparently takes 26 weeks to get a meeting...), it would be great to get some written support - I'll keep updating this site in the meantime.

We've recently heard that the site next to us (think its called Vista - the old Parade) has been sold and construction work should begin again pretty soon.

Finally if anyone is around on Sept 21st we're having a private view for the opening of a new show at John Jones - really poignant and beautiful photography by a young Israeli fashion photographer called Yuval Hen. More info on our website soon and we'll be starting a new thread on this site.

delaware1

kate

I think it is ridiculous that this development has been refused - idiocy - typical of the lack of vision and jobsworth attitude that typifies the process. It would have transformed the feel and safety of that part of the area and created a real buzz. The clerkenwell design was good as well - it could have been more bold but I can understand you didn't want to risk anything too exciting for fear of sending the planning officers into a tailspin. I imagine you must be extremely frustrated but please dont give up. obviously happy to provide support so keep us posted.

Arkady

Yeah, you know i'm a development geek, but I spent hours pouring over those beautiful , detailed, well thought-out plans. I get angrier every time I think about it. Insanity.

miss annie

It would be fabulous to have a 'cultural quarter', it would transform the feel of that part of Finsbury Park. Please continue pursuing that theme and let us know what happens.

I have an friend who restores posters and gets them framed by you. He dreads the trip to up from the south but that kind of development would help to change people's perceptions of the area.

Arkady

I might write a condemnatory article about this and see if I can't get it published. A letter-writing campaign might be order too.

Kate, to that end please do give us the unadulterated details of their report when you recieve it. A

Kate Jones

wow thats great, thank you - will publish their report as soon as we get it!

@missannie - yes we often have people who dread the trip to f park, and we really believe that the development of the cultural quarter will help to create more of a destination for the area...

on a separate note please do give support to the Park Theatre plans which are currently on Islington's website, application No is P101570

Reg

Kate, have you had any contact with the Trustees of FinFuture? They are the local regeneration trust and I am sure they might be able to help negotiate the murky world of committee members?

ActionVerb

Timescales on planning appeals are anything from 6 to 9months from appeal submission date, so prepare for a bit of a wait unfortunately (The Inspectorate have targets for residential appeals, but not for commercial/retail, so the residentials get prioritised). Could be tricky if that Student Housing policy comes out before the Inspector considers the scheme and the policy is not helpful for your scheme.

It sounds that you've done a lot of work with the planning officer to get a positive recommendation, but perhaps not enough shmoozing has been done with the Councillors.

It may be a good idea to submit a slightly amended scheme (as well as run an appeal in parallel), a bit lower and one retaining a few more trees if possible, or an appropriate landscaping mitigation scheme. Provided you are happy with the compromises, this would potentially address the Councillors concerns and they may be more inclined to approve it, especially if this would result in a withdrawl of a potentially costly appeal for the original scheme. Although you'll still have the issue with how the Councillors perceive your approach to the Student Housing policy. I guess the point that their decisions need to be made on current policies rather than anything potentially emerging.

Kate Jones

Good ideas, thanks - will get in touch with FinFuture.

@ActionVery, yes I think that will probably be the way forward - we have some ideas to reduce the scale slightly whilst retaining the viability. And we'll try to speak with the committee members separately to get a better guage for what is required. I think changes in the committee have resulted in a change of direction hence our planning officer's extremely strong recommendation being turned down. he looked absolutely shell shocked in the meeting poor guy... must have been a tough pre-meeting for him!

anyone had any contact with jeremy corbyn local MP? i might try to get in touch with him too.

Mirandola

For what it's worth, I've just put in a positive comment for the Park Theatre on the Islington planning website.

andy

The friendly councillors of Tollington Ward (Richard Watts, Catherine West) are a good route into Jeremy Corbyn.

wideboy

I'd have assumed the site comes under Finsbury Park ward? ( Cllr Phil Kelly, Barbara Sidnell and Michael O'Sullivan)

Cllr Kelly used to chair the planning commitee for this area and knows a thing or two about planning.

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