Primary School nightmare

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  • edited 7:35PM
    @vickym - if you look at walkjogrun.com or similar then you can measure the catchment of 0.18m from St Aidan's. This does make quite a big circle with plenty of houses/flats inside.
  • edited 7:35PM
    Well, spoke to Islington and it seems that Ashmount is v oversubscribed for the first time ever. Our DD is 23rd on the waiting list, so not much hope, but it looks as though we may get a place at Christ the King. I haven't looked around it, but it has to be better than trekking to Tottenham and the Ofsted is outstanding, so perhaps we're not quite in the pickle we were.

    Still, system stinks, as far as I'm concerned...Haringey needs to work on increasing places in parts of the borough where there is most pressure, ie, around SG and Crouch End rather than attempting to fill places halfway across the borough.
  • edited 7:35PM
    Good news hopefully, and well done Siolae. SG.org for the win! (I suspect people have stopped saying that by now?)
  • edited 7:35PM
    vickym - that is what Haringey did when they built a new bit of the school doubled the intake at Coleridge...
  • edited 7:35PM
    @dion - yes, I know that, but it still hasn't sorted out the problems.

    If you've got lots of parents being offered places miles away from where they live, there's clearly still an issue of there not being enough places where there is demand and too many places where there isn't.

    While that probably changes to a certain degree on an annual basis, I don't think the general trend does. Look at the pressure around schools like Weston Park and Rokesly, too.

    Every year parents are led to believe they have a choice about where to educate their children, but in reality, there are very few that do (not just in Haringey, but across the country).

    That's why I think the system stinks. Rather than spending time allocating and re-allocating places to people that are unhappy with what they've got, perhaps resources would be better spent on improving the schools that no-one wants to go to and ensuring that there are places in areas where there is most demand (because there are more children there).
  • edited 7:35PM
    And thank you, Siolae. We may end up meeting at the school gates!
  • edited 7:35PM
    Well, it seems as though waiting lists do shift quite a lot. We've now been offered a place at Stroud Green (a hundred times better than Tiverton on distance alone) and moved up the Ashmount list from 23 to 8....Also no 2 on the CTK waiting list. So maybe we do have a choice after all. Stressful experience all round, though.

    I have to say that Islington admissions team are brilliant. You can talk to them whenever you want and they will provide you with info straight away. Haringey won't speak to you and can't provide any info on things like waiting lists. Top marks for Islington, I say!
  • edited 7:35PM
    @Vickym Been away for a while hence lack of response. Glad to be of help. Good luck with whatever you choose.
  • edited 7:35PM
    Here's a story from one of our local papers which may be of interest to those with pre-school age children in the area and who are worrying about places at local schools. There are comments about this also on Lynne Featherstone's blog - lynnefeatherstone.org


    Primary school places in Haringey under threat
    9:29am Wednesday 7th July 2010
    FEARS are mounting that a £8.57 million budget cut earmarked for expansion of Haringey's primary schools could throw the plans in jeopardy.
    As part of the coalition Government's reigning in of public spending, Haringey will no longer receive funding that would have played a major role in plans to create more primary school places.
    Many of the borough's schools are at maximum capacity and the population is still growing.
    Council leader Claire Kober has now written to education secretary Michael Gove, after two meetings to discuss the removal of funding were cancelled by Department of Education officials at the last minute.
    In her letter, Ms Kober wrote: "The decision, and inability to clarify, despite our repeated requests, is a barrier to the council's prudent planning for primary school places in the borough."
    She addded: "This is causing a significant amount of anxiety amongst our parents, teachers and governors – as projects we have developed to meet the demand are now at risk."
    She closed the letter with a call for an urgent meeting between department and council officials to resolve the situation.
    Demand for reception places is projected to rise from 3,059 this year to 3,478 by 2020 - significantly outstripping the 3,131 places expected to be available by 2020 if no further capacity is created.
  • edited 7:35PM
    Been a long time since I visited this page, but Bridget, I thought I'd let you know the final outcome as you'll be going through all this soon.

    We got a place at Christ the King in June, but the school refused to let us visit for longer than five minutes, we were never allowed to meet any of the teachers, it didn't give us a uniform list and didn't even give us a start date. Not very promising. And very hard to prepare a young child for what to expect if you don't know yourself.

    A week and a half before term started, we got a call from Islington saying we had a place at Ashmout. Hurrah! Daughter now there and we are all so happy with the school. Lovely environment, very welcoming for children and parents, excellent headteacher, strong parental involvement, good mix of kids, very well organised...I could go on.

    This whole process has taught me a number of things:

    1. Waiting lists can move a lot. We went from 23 to getting a place (eventually).
    2. The most popular schools are not always the best fit for your child. A school like Ashmount is rarely top of people's lists because it's surrounded by others with better reputations/OFSTED reports (hence us moving so much on the waiting list), yet for my daughter, it has proved to be absolutely right on many counts.
    3. Reputations are often out of date. Those with the best OFSTED reports/reputations can become complacent. I've spoken to a couple of parents who moved their children from St Aidan's to Ashmount and said that they were far more happy with Ashmount as it was an improving school and there were greater efforts to work with children and get parents involved.
    4. Parental support is almost as important as the school's input, so even if your child doesn't get into the school you'd like, you can still make a difference at home (as well as being proactively involved in the school).
    5. Educational standards are important, but possibly top of the list is whether your child is happy in their environment. If they're not in an environment that suits them, they won't progress as well as they could.

    In all, our situation has worked out better than we could have imagined, particularly as it was a hugely stressful process for us. Good luck to anyone that is going through the process this year and beyond!
  • edited 7:35PM
    Wow thanks Vicky.

    Great news you got into Ashmount. Ive heard great things about it.

    I've just started to look in case we move as we are in no mans land for primaries.

    I have it all to come. Eeeeeeek.

    Bridget x
  • edited 7:35PM
    Where are you, Bridget? We're miles from Ashmount, but still got a place (and there are places coming up all the time as people move away). Also worth bearing in mind that it will move in 2012 (or that's the plan anyway) and it'll be in SG - top of Crouch Hill.
  • My son will start school in summer of next year so need to start getting my head round this whole school thing!<br><br>Any update on the contributions above, as well as any other views on local primary schools, would be very welcome. Has anyone applied to Asmount? Still impossible to get in St Aidans?<br><br>Thanks in advance!<br>
  • My daughter went to Stroud green from nursery to age 8, then we moved her to Ashmount. They are worlds apart, it was the best move we ever did. Ashmount has a really good head teacher and positive attitude and I can't say enough good things about it. They are moving in to brand new premises in Sept, sadly just as my daughter starts secondary.
  • wait till you start looking at secondary schools  it is ten times worse unless  your have daughters
  • Ashmount  does also get  £1500  per pupil more than SG School which must help
  • Why does having daughters help?
  • Higher value on the open market?<br><br>More seriously, having daughters helps because they have a rather better chance of getting into state girls' schools (which are often thought to be better than mixed or boys-only).<br>
  • Thanks for the feedback so far people, please keep it coming!<br><br>Will definitely take a closer look at Ashmount, the new premises will be nice and local to us too.<br>
  • And on St Aidan's they basically apply a sibling rule and then a (very small) catchment area - as the crow flies from the school to your address using some funny (and not publically available) Post Office tool.<br><br>Last year 190 applications for 30 places. 16 siblings took first dibs and then the rest went to those who lived within 0.188 miles. (Look <a href="http://www.haringey.gov.uk/primary_school_admissions_booklet_september_2012_-_full_version.pdf">here </a>(page 9) for stats for all LBH schools.)<br><br>You can do a very rough and ready radius from St Aidan's at 0.18 miles in Google Earth - takes in Cornwall Rd to south, most of Lancaster, bits of Ferme Park Road, some of Mt View and Quernmore, with bits of Oakfield. This is very unscientific of course - and if there were fewer siblings for next year then presumably the distance from the school gate would lengthen - but Upper Tollington wouldn't appear to have been in the catchment last year.<br><br>NB presumably you've now applied? The deadline for LBH was 15th Jan 2012.<br>
  • strangly on page 11 of the doc above selection criteria there is no data for Stroud Green School ? Wonder Why?
  • I suspect there's no SGR data because it wasn't oversubscribed - the table is preceded: "The following table show the number of pupils offered under each criterion for schools where oversubscription criteria was used".<br><br>It's a 2-form entry so has double the places of eg St Aidan's.<br><br>It got an 'adequate' grade on the recent Offsted, though the Children's Centre bit was 'inadequate', according to the school's website. I've not read the report.<br>
  • I mentioned daughters because if you live around the SG triangle you have choice of schools ie Hornsey Girls. If you’re a young lad it is IAMs for you as you will be a way out of the catchment areas of better schools. There was a riot at IAMS last Friday see http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-24030847-police-stop-mob-of-60-from-attacking-student-at-rival-school.do One of the IAMS pupils was carrying after school – how can that happen?<br>The lack of choice is also evidenced at SG school as you will find that Yr 5 and 6 are taught together as there are not enough pupils in the older year as lots of people get out of the area to find better secondary schools. Sad but true ! <br>
  • @Ali. Didn't you notice that at the end of that  report Ofsted described IAMS as a good school, with many outstanding features? As an ex-teacher, I find it depressing how readily people rubbish a school, concentrating solely on negative features. Such gossip does a lot of undeserved damage, in my opinion.
  • Poor kid how frightening.<br>Really feed sorry for the boy.<br><br>I see constant really violent behaviour from the pupils of this school, seeing kids getting beaten up really badly, swarms of kids running to watch someone being beaten up, kids walking down the road with big pieces of wood in their hands to beat someone up with. I feel so sorry for a lot of those kids, it really feels awful to walk past some of the smaller ones with big gangs coming swearing and walking past the house talking about stabbing. I have had to intervene and call the police which I mentioned before when a poor boy from the school was badly beaten up in Woodstock Park by 20 kids and the police failed to turn up after several calls. He was in a total mess bleeding and missing his GCSE's.<br><br>I see the police on corners now thankfully. Id really feel sorry for the kids there to be honest. Im sure there are some good things about the school and the head seemed lovely. I met a teacher from there once who said it was dreadful with fighting in the classrooms her getting abused etc. It really seems like it could do with a much stricter structure - which I think happened at Holloway Boys. Who knows but there is a general feeling of noone cares. Ive written to Jeremy Corbyn about it and there is not a lot of feedback. Sad. <br>
  • Sorry about all the spelling mistakes!<br>Anyway hope IAMS and the children there get help.<br>Hornsey girls seems pretty rough too, I wouldn't send my daughter either, great head but pretty dire. Just seeing the kids in the streets screaming and swearing makes me shudder. There really isnt much choice at all. The alternative is to send you kids on the tube to schools into other boroughs which I have had friends do, but I wouldn't as I don't want my kids on the tube before they have to!<br><br>
  • <P>School performantables are out  <A href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/education/school_tables/primary/11/html/206.stm">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/education/school_tables/primary/11/html/206.stm</A></P>; <P>Shows that SG gets 87 for English, 80 for Maths, Ashmount gets 91 for English and 61 for Maths.</P> <P>Interesting  as SG has English a second lanuage for a large number of it's pupils, </P>
  • <P>Only 45% of IAMS kids got good grades for 5 GCSEs  in fact most Islington ones did not do so well. Some quite good results in Haringey,  Highgate Woods 68%, Fortismere 79%  </P>
  • See latest Tribune for a much more upbeat account of the school, and of that horrible incident. 45%, yes, but steadily improving. And don't be fooled by all the academy hype - The City of London Academy,further south in the borough, is on its knees. Elsewhere in the Tribune you can read of how another much maligned school was bullied out of existence, in order to create this disaster - Islington Green. Moral: think twice before rubbishing local schools. You do a lot of damage (no apologies for repeating myself). The academy programme is political in purpose. Bribe local authority schools and greedy head teachers, wrench them from the support of the community, make them virtually independent. Result? Too early to say, but I predict a  future not unrelated to the fifties, with the highly  pernicious divide btween rich and poor, effectively.
  • PS. Someone on this forum works at IAMS. It would be great to hear what they have to say about the school, but I quite recognise that they might want to preserve their anonymity. When I see them (deliberate non-gender plural!), I'll ask for their comments, and let you all know.
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