Primary School nightmare

David Barry · October 2012

@boxrunner<;div> </div><div>Quite right!</div>

Ali · October 2012

how the school manages the issue of pushing those children with English as a first language, at the same time as helping (as they do) children with English as a second language? That can be an issue but fact that as it reflects the mix of kids it has big benefit from the kids learning in a multi cultural environmnet because that is what they will live in when they grow up, getting their parents involved in the School PTA and school activities is really really hard. The internation night at SGC at whcih people bring their national dishes is fun but that is about that. SGC is okay most famous ex pupil is Bob Hoskins

conformable_kate · October 2012

It's a sensitive topic, isn't it. I agree with Ali that the diversity and the cultural mix is a positive thing, and has lots of benefits, but I can see that the second language issue can be worrying if you feel that the class teacher's time is too much dedicated to teaching fundamentals of language. I don't know the current proportion of second language children in the school - I assume it's info in the public domain somewhere - but it certainly doesn't seem excessive in any of the classes she's been in. I haven't found it an issue. But my niece though bright had a troubled early childhood which left her quite behind on reading etc, and pushing her hasn't really been the thing I have most worried about - more helping and encouraging her to catch up, which on the whole I think they've done very well. <div> </div><div>I can say they are keen on setting homework, and there is more of it than I really like to see at this age, though I know many parents approve of it more than I do! And judging by the homework tasks I'd say they do set the bar quite high in terms of what they are expecting the kids to be able to do. My guess is that in terms of support from teachers there would be no problem, lots of encouragement etc. But I'd suggest talking to the school too about what they have in place to support children who are fast learners - they seem to have quite a few supplementary specialist support staff. </div>

Ali · October 2012

SCG certainly hand out the home work some of which actually challenges me !

boxrunner · October 2012

That's really useful, thanks both @conformable_kate and @Ali. We visited Duncombe this week who make a big deal about pushing their kids and homework (arguably putting too much emphasis on it, for such young children). Neither me nor my partner had picked-up the extent of homework at either Pooles Park or Stroud Green, so it's good to have these comments and is something we'll follow-up with the school to get a handle on how much homework they give (Duncombe give homework once a week - every Tuesday, to be completed by the following Monday, I don't know how long it takes the children to complete though. Also, apparently they check the children's reading of whatever book they're on every morning.)

Ali · October 2012

Weekly spelling test to look forward to !

boxrunner · October 2012

Regarding the diversity issue (yes it is indeed sensitive), I certainly want a diverse environment for my kids, so that they are exposed to the wide array of cultures, colours, languages, wealth, etc. that exist in the real world. What I must confess I am hesitant about is the kids being outliers in a not-very-diverse school, instead of being part of the diverse make-up of the school. Apologies if that makes me sound small-minded, my intention is precisely the opposite!

boxrunner · October 2012

Weekly spelling tests?! But I rely on spell-check! :-)

Ali · October 2012

Then you may find out how bad your spelling may have got !

Mirandola · October 2012

Very relevant, and moving, piece in the TES about Duncombe primary: <A href="http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storyCode=6297647">http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storyCode=6297647</A>; 'At first glance there is nothing unusual about Duncombe Primary School in North London. Children play happily in the well-maintained playgrounds, and appear to learn contentedly during stimulating lessons taught by impressive staff. Everyone goes about their business in a calm and efficient fashion. Indeed, Ofsted inspectors have rated the school as good with outstanding features. In many ways it echoes high-performing primaries around the country. Yet dig below this tranquil surface, and ask a little about Duncombe’s history, and a very different picture emerges. Far from being a long-term beacon of quality and learning, it confronts daily a range of unrelenting problems. For this is the “poorest” mainstream school in the country.'

Calouste · October 2012

This is how they approach homework at Coleridge <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jan/28/schools.education">http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jan/28/schools.education</a>;

boxrunner · October 2012

Thanks @Mirandola, really interesting piece. It's funny, the article doesn't' tell me anything I didn't pick-up from our visit there, but putting it in such stark terms is really striking. Food for thought.

conformable_kate · October 2012

The two articles together are somehow very perturbing. The Coleridge system sounds admirable, creative and well-intentioned, but as soon as you put it together with the Duncombe profile you can see how it could all go wrong. How would parents with poor English or restricted finances cope with some of these tasks? How would children whose parents are absent, or for whatever reason not coping beyond the bare minimum of keeping the kids in school, experience these repeated requests to behave like the kind of family they simply aren't? What this illustrates is a damaging inner-city divide, even though both pieces in very different ways are quite inspirational. Who knows how to solve it.

Ali · December 2012

semes like Stroud Green School is doing better than the other schools around here. Only two schools have slightly better Sats results for Maths <A href="http://www.standard.co.uk/standard.co.uk/downloads/Primary League Tables 2012.pdf">http://www.standard.co.uk/standard.co.uk/downloads/Primary League Tables 2012.pdf</A> Well done !

checkski · December 2012

Exactly the same as Poole's Park, as far as I can see, once 'value' has been added: 100.8%, whatever that signifies. No mean achievement, when you consider how many bilingual kids there are at the school, many of them very poor. Around my way, the middle class families favour Stroud Green, for social rather than educational reasons, it seems to me. Pity. PS. PP is in Islington, and SG in Haringey, should anybody else want to look at the stats.

Calouste · December 2012

The Evening Standard link only shows a summarised table.<o:p></o:p> Level 4 is the standard most children are expected to reach in their KS2 Sats tests in Year 6. Government standards are pretty low in my opinion, you wouldn’t get into any kind of academic selective school with a level 4.<o:p></o:p> Schools where fewer than 60% of children reached Level 4 in both subjects are considered by the government to be underperforming. However, ministers exempt schools where pupils are making sufficient progress, even if their attainment is low.<o:p></o:p> If you really want to see how well a school is doing (on a purely academic basis) you need to look at the full table and take note of pupils who gain Level 5 in both their maths and English Sats whom are considered to have exceeded expectations for their age. They will have reached the level of achievement expected of a 14-year-old - hence the term high-achieving pupils is used on the DfE website.<o:p></o:p> The government also gives figures for the proportion of pupils in each school reaching Level 5 in maths and English separately. These can be found on the individual school pages published by the Department for Education (DfE).<o:p></o:p> Stroud Green School had 35% of their 2012 leavers gain Level 5 or above in both their maths and English Sats (high-achieving pupils). Which is pretty good.

Ali · December 2012

Checkski I don't think you can say that SGC is particularly middle class at all. It just refects it's catchment area say like St Aidans which is definitly more middle class

checkski · December 2012

More or less agreed. St Aidan's = v. middle class, with houses in the area rocketing in price over, say, the last 10 years, as the pushy classes translocate, to achieve their desire to be with fellow pushies, regardless of whether they are Christians or not. (Fact. Article in Observer some time ago, on this very subject). Stroud Green, a BIT more mixed, but where I live, somewhere between SG and PP, there is an identifiable cohort who would settle for SG, but would do anything to avoid PP, with its scarcity of fellow boojies.

boxrunner · December 2012

For what it's worth we looked at both SG and PP, and have seriously considered both since they have different strengths/weaknesses and (in different ways) we were impressed by both of them. Ultimately we have put a preference for SG in our application (although I have heard that Haringey Council is in something of a mess and that Islington are comparatively more organised: what impact that has on the Primary Schools themselves I don't know). The main reason for preferring SG is the fact that PP has no after-school activities unless we want to organise our son going to Montem after 3:30. Since we both work, this is an essential element of choosing school and SG has what appears to be good provision in that regard.

checkski · December 2012

Not true to say PP has no after-school activities...

boxrunner · December 2012

Really? In which case we were mis-informed by the Deputy Headteacher who showed us around. That would be an odd thing for her to do... Perhaps you're thinking of other organisations who use the School's space, rather than activities which are run by the School itself, since she was unambiguous on this topic.

checkski · December 2012

Can't say any more. Sorry. Except that there are at least 2 after-school activities.

Jorgan · December 2012

My tuppence worth,<div>I moved my daughter from Stroud Green to Ashmount, and found it much much better. It was the lack of leadership and direction from the head teacher at SG (the teachers were mostly pretty good). She had homework left in her bag that nobody bothered to mark and many other things. The Head teacher at Ashmount was dynamic and inspiring and I noticed the difference from day one. It was a good decision for me.</div>

boxrunner · December 2012

@checkski: why can't you say anymore? Are they secret? Perhaps that's why she didn't tell us about them. @Jorgan: Interesting. Based on our visits we felt exactly the same about both schools. Ashmount is our 1st choice, SG 2nd, (PP 3rd) mainly for the reasons you say.

conformable_kate · December 2012

On PP again: last year they had a range of after-school clubs - board games, gardening, recorder, etc - though not as a rule running later than 4.30 or 5 so didn't really fix the work problem. This term, though, I'm not sure what's happening, but there are no clubs: for several weeks when I asked there was supposed to be a club timetable on the way but it never happened, and the club issue seems to have been quietly dropped. I imagine it's down to cuts, sadly - no money to provide this kind of thing - though breakfast club is still going.

boxrunner · December 2012

@confromable_kate: yep, the deputy head told us that they had to drop them because of cuts, and that the school couldn't afford to pay for them themselves. She did tell me that Breakfast Club continues, which is great, but not so helpful for us personally.

miss annie · December 2012

How do cuts affect after school activities? I don't have young folk so I don't understand how it works. If it's because they can't afford to pay teachers to stay, couldn't they ask for volunteers to come in and do things? I know that the CRB checks cost money but WI help at SG Primary and our members have paid for their own checks. I bet there are enough motivated retired people, stay at home parents etc that would take up the challenge. Or is there just no way this is possible?

boxrunner · December 2012

The school used to receive funding (she told me, but I can't remember if it came from the Council or directly from Government, I suspect the former) to provide these services. Unfortunately the cuts have meant that this funding stream has dried up (though I think each Borough may have dealt with this slightly differently, so this isn't necessarily true across the board). It's then up-to the school how to handle this. For example, Duncombe has decided to retain the services and has found alternative funding sources (don't know how/where from). I have no idea regarding the logistics/legalities in setting-up and running these sorts of things, though I imagine CRB is just for starters.

Ali · December 2012

Strangly enough the cuts cuaysed the council to hand SGS Hideaway to the School so I guess it is a bit more joined up. SGC seems to have afterschool and lunch time clubs on specific topics football, karate Chess etc along with the breakfast and after school clubs which are more catering for working parents. They do some good stuff I thought it was great that all the kids on year 6 baked their own bread to bring home last week. Oftsted did pick up on the leadership/management issues in the school. Another visit must be due from Ofsted so it will be interesting to see what happens and whether it ends up as an academy

nancyccampbell · July 2013

Hi everyone! I know this conversation is quite old but I came across it when googling the school and as I expect others will too, I thought it'd be helpful to give an update on Stroud Green Primary. I've just become a Community Governor and my impression of the school is overwhelmingly positive. I've made a few visits and the atmosphere is lovely - the children are beautifully behaved without having their natural curiosity stifled, and although the SATs results haven't been made official yet, it looks like they are going to be excellent. All of this is backed up by a good ofsted rating earlier this year (you can see the report here: http://www.stroudgreen.haringey.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/ofsted-report-2013.pdf) I think there was some discussion of after school clubs too - last year's activities are here: http://www.stroudgreen.haringey.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/clubs-2013.pdf and I think a similar schedule is being organised for the coming academic year. As well as breakfast & after school clubs, there is also some summer provision in the Hideaway: http://www.stroudgreen.haringey.sch.uk/?p=4066 I'm really looking forward to sending my baby daughter there in a few years! If you have any questions about the school, do post them up and I'll try and find the answers for you - it'll be a good way for me to learn more too...

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Primary School nightmare

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