Finsbury Park Station/City North Development

RajSahota · March 2015

<div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'NJFont Book','serif'"> Those with accessibility requirements may be interested in the below, also from the TFL external relations team - <br></span></p></div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'NJFont Book','serif'">Currently, across the network, we offer a ‘Turn up and go’ service where staff are available to assist our passengers with accessibility requirements continue their journeys across the network. This will of course continue to be offered in advance of and during the Wells Terrace station entrance closure. Staff will be fully able to assist customers with accessibility requirements. In advance of the Wells Terrace station entrance closure, we are also planning to hold a drop-in day on Thursday 16 April for residents with accessibility needs. <br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'NJFont Book','serif'"> </span></p></div>

graeme · March 2015

<h1 style="margin: 0px 0px 10px; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"><span style="font-size: medium;">http://www.stroudgreenlabour.org.uk/blog/wells-terrace-entrance-update<br></span></h1><div style="font-size: 10pt;">To save SG.org visitors trying to read white text on an ever-changing photo background at the Labour website... </div><h1 style="font-size: 10pt; margin: 0px 0px 10px; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"><br></h1><div><blockquote>]</div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><h1 style="font-size: 10pt; margin: 0px 0px 10px; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">Wells Terrace Entrance Update </h1><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">24.03.2015</p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">Below is an email we have received from TFL External relations team: </p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">“The alternative walking route into the station via Station Place is approximately one hundred meters further than the existing route. From the current Wells Terrace entrance to the Underground platforms, customers currently must walk the length of the adjoining long corridor into the station. If you prefer not to walk under the bridge on Stroud Green Road the alternative route will also be advertised to the Seven Sisters Road entrance. I understand that the London Borough of Islington is currently working on a project to improve the area under Stroud Green Road bridge through the installation of artwork and lighting. More information on this can be found here http://www.islington.gov.uk/islington/news-events/news-releases/2014/11/Pages/PR6030.aspx</p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"> </p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">We have undertaken a thorough congestion analysis of the pavement to ensure that the route between Wells Terrace and Station Place can accommodate all those using the pavement. Even during the busiest times of the day, at the narrowest points, the pavement is sufficiently wide enough to accommodate these numbers.</p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"> </p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">During the Wells Terrace station entrance closure, bus passengers will not have their journeys diverted or disrupted and we are not diverting customers to other Tube stations as a result of these works. We are therefore also not considering requesting that Haringey station is rezoned. We are planning to have announcements on board buses in the days leading up to Wells Terrace closure, in addition to our comprehensive communications at the station and to users of the station.</p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"> </p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">These works will take place until early 2018, when we will open the new western station entrance. Closing the Wells Terrace station entrance enables the City North Ltd adjacent development to construct the One City North tower over the station, and build the new, larger and more accessible Finsbury Park Tube station entrance. The developer will be carrying out piling works in order to construct the tower above the existing Wells Terrance entrance corridor, making it unfeasible to keep this entrance open during construction. Once built, this new entrance will be more accessible and will offer much improved journeys through the station. By early 2019, we will also have introduced step-free access to the Tube station for the first time, unlocking thousands of journeys for customers.</p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"> </p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">I hope that these points have addressed your concerns. We thoroughly investigated how to carry out the improvement work at Finsbury Park Underground station in the safest, most efficient manner possible whilst keeping disruption in the area to a minimum. Information on our plans has been regularly shared with the London Borough of Haringey through our ongoing engagement with appropriate cabinet members, London Assembly, and Parliament representatives, at Public Transport Liaison Meetings, and to local businesses and community groups including the Finsbury Park Regeneration Board and the Finsbury Park Trust. Until we received confirmation from LB Islington and the local developer, we had been unable to confirm dates or further details of these projects. Once we received confirmation on Monday 16 March, we began rolling out our communications immediately on the same day.</p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"> </p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">I do hope that this information is useful and answers your questions. Now that we have received confirmation on project dates and details we will continue to use local available channels to share information including providing an update at the forthcoming London Borough of Haringey Public Transport Liaison Meeting next Wednesday 25 March.”</p></blockquote><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"></blockquote></p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;">Hopefully the 800-1000ish residents of the new tower (likely all using the station, to go to work to pay their rent to their Far Eastern land lords) don't tip the commuter numbers beyond capacity, so they have to build another entrace in 2019 or something... </p><p style="font-size: 16px; margin: 0px 0px 7px; line-height: 1.4em; font-family: NeoSansStdRegular;"> </p>

fabruce · March 2015

@RajSahota: thanks very much for sharing the information with the forum.<div><br></div><div>Did they provide you with the details of their studies? How many people will have to walk down the narrow pavement and at what time? What the peaks will be and what they do consider to be safe and why?</div><div><br></div><div>It's not a tragedy to walk an extra 100 meters and we all know that, but there are some serious safety / overcrowding concerns that can't be swept under the carpet like nothing happened.</div><div><br></div><div>I guess they will be happy to provide the residents with the details of the work taking place at city north, and why they have to close the station entrance straight away rather than trying to minimize the impact and delay the closure. It might be an obvious one here, but we can't trust that it's the best decision without real data.</div><div><br></div><div>Hopefully the pressure from various angles can result in some changes to the original plan.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Arkady · March 2015

Raj,<br><br>TfL don't answer the key question. They note that the Wells Terrace entrance has to close because of the piling works - fine, that's well understood. But the plans indicate that the piling and basement works will take up to a year. At that point the development will be up to ground level. Why can a temporary entrance not be created then, as at other station redevelopments, with the development finished around it? Even better, perhaps they could even prioritise the new permanent street and entrance, and then finish the rest of the development around it? Why do we have to wait three years, instead of one as in this alternative scenario?<br><br>It's not just that they haven't answered that question - no-one in a position of influence appears to have even asked it.<br><br>The answer is probably 'because it would inconvenience the developers', but I'm sure you will agree that this is not a sufficient or acceptable answer.<br><br>Perhaps you could press them on this?

RajSahota · March 2015

Arkady <br><br>Ill put your question to my contact at TFL and get back to you all. <br><br>Best <br>

duffer · March 2015

Raj, how much is TfL receiving from this deal? I'm assuming that there must be a financial incentive for them to be so agreeable over what is a highly significant inconveniencing of their farepayers. Perhaps if that were to be made public then we could have more understanding as to why the developer is <span class="st">privileged </span> over the rest of us poor mugs. Or will an FoI be required? If so it's clear that (as ever) it's not in TfL's interest to have details made public. <br>

Papa · March 2015

<span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px;">It takes some magical realism on TFL's part to play down the effects of closing the entrance to an entire side of the Tube station for three years to that extent.</span><div><br><div>I do not believe it is only an extra 100 metres, I reckon there is some serious fudging going on to get to that result.</div><div><div>Also, the pavement under the bridge can barely cope with people now, nor can the Station Place entrance cope when Wells Terrace is shut.</div><div><br></div><div>Still at least it's so we can build flats to flog to people in the Far East. I feel much better about it now.</div></div></div><div><br></div><div>I love the way that it sounds like they are doing Wells Terrace passengers a favour by buses continuing to stop there, when actually they are massively disadvantaged by buses not going under the bridge and the absence of through routes at Finsbury Park.</div>

NorthNineteen · March 2015

The last paragraph from TfL should read:<br><br>"I hope that these points have addressed your concerns. We thoroughly investigated how to carry out the improvement work at Finsbury Park Underground station in the safest, most efficient manner possible whilst keeping disruption [<span style="font-weight: bold;">to developers</span>] to a minimum"<br><br>I measured the distance on the TfL mapping system today - the additional distance is 180m by my measurement. I may time it as some point...<br>

skev303 · March 2015

They need to close the cycle lanes to cope with the extra footfall.

NorthNineteen · March 2015

The cycle lanes are hardly well use though... And you're walking into cyclists at least in the morning peak (when it will be much much worse)... It will be interesting to see how wells Terrace copes when station place is closed....

maclondon · March 2015

the TfL Board report stated that the developers are paying for the station works (not all of it) Islington Council agreed to the plans. it is worth challenging the time related to the closure but as the new entrance is at the heart of their development it is difficult to see how it can be done without some closure. I will say it again, if we want something changed then it requires a bigger change in Government policy - TfL are working to the cards it has been given which is shrinking subsidy, growing demand and dependency on private developers to deliver what little housing is being built. It is still worth challenging TfL (and Islington) to improve the temporary access arrangements and related measures.

Papa · March 2015

I got the tube home last night. The walk from the exit of the stairs from the Victoria / Piccadilly Lines to Wells Terrace is a lot shorter than walking out through Station Place, under the bridge and round to the Wells Terrace exit.<div><br></div><div>There's no way that one minute claim stands up.</div>

Ali · March 2015

<p>massively disadvantaged by buses not going under the bridge and the absence of through routes at Finsbury Park., </p><p>Why not run through buses via Fonthill Road</p><p> </p><p> </p>

krappyrubsnif · March 2015

Difficult turns at the top at Tolly Park and Stroud Green Road crossroads? Good idea for smaller buses though.

Papa · March 2015

Not only do you have to walk - which we seem to have established people don't like - but more to the point the whole bridge-bus splitting thing means you have to pay two fares to get to many places nearby, ie from top of Stroud Green Road to Upper St or Stoke Newington.<div><br></div><div>That's deeply regressive.</div><div>It's an outrage.</div><div>I demand action.</div><div>Councillors and MPs are you listening?</div><div>Two legs bad, four wheels good.</div>

krappyrubsnif · March 2015

Looking on the brighter side, residents North of the bridge will have to walk further and therefore be fitter, more mentally balanced, wiser and live longer. Walking for an extra two minutes doesn't bother me at all but having to fight for passage under that bridge with its dying pigeons, excrement covered pavements and drips of unidentifiable fluid from the overhead rail lines is deeply depressing.

maclondon · March 2015

agree with Krappyrubsnif that Islington Council needs to get its act together and improve the pavements under the railway bridge. People walk much further to get from one side of Kings Cross station to the other and there are more people using the passageways within the Kings Cross then walking under the bridge - the quality of the underpass is important it would be good to see other measures to make the best of situation. Businesses and residents along Clifton & Wells Terrace are the ones most impacted and I am not sure how this is being managed by United House who will be doing most of the building work.

Duncan · March 2015

Actually I love that the buses stop at Finsbury Park.<br><br>That bridge is what keeps Stroud Green so quiet. Together with the park and the railway (and I suspect even Hampstead Heath). I mean really have you lived in other parts of London? Stroud Green is a beautiful backwater in comparison. And people actually walk up and down the road all the time; and there are shops on it; it's wonderful.<br><br>Plus it means regular buses late into the evening, with seats, whenever you want to come home.<br><br>Never mind widening the pavement, I'd be all for pedestrianising it. Although I'm open to the possibility that this would be a Bad Idea as I haven't really thought it through.<br><br>And ok I am chastened, I can put up with walking a bit further so long as it isn't overcrowded.

gardener-joe · March 2015

...

Tordie · March 2015

Agree with you Krappyrubsnif- it is disgusting under the bridge!

marko · March 2015

Whilst on the subject of the under the bridges, the cycle lanes are terribly designed. It would seem wise to remove the one on the west side of the road for the time-being - it will be rendered useless by the extra pedestrians, and is already useless further up the road by the Sketch House development. <div><br></div><div>The one on the other side is rendered dangerous by the combination of the doors of Taxis on one side, and pedestrians on the other. </div>

duffer · March 2015

Um this is possibly mighty slow of me, but I actually stopped and read the notice this morn: Wells is being closed permanently, rather than 'just' for 3 years, is that correct? Does that mean that the businesses on Clifton terrace are no longer on a direct route to the station? <br>

NorthNineteen · March 2015

There will be a new ticket hall, roughly where the tunnel currently splits between Wells Terrace and Seven Sisters Road. This will then open out into a new development and street which will lead up to Wells Terrace roughly opposite the Starbucks.<br><br><span style="font-family: Arial, Verdana;"><span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px; line-height: normal;"><a href="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/rup-20150212-part-1-item07-finsbury-park-step-free.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/rup-20150212-part-1-item07-finsbury-park-step-free.pdf</a>; visualises it quite well</span></span><br>

duffer · March 2015

Thanks!

Arkady · March 2015

If you stand on platform 7&8 at night, looking in the direction of the City North site with your back to the waiting room, have a look at the disused platform in front of you. Where the platform meets the ground, there is a longish opening/gap which is brightly lit from within. What is this space? An abandoned stairwell under the old platform? The t-junction where the two TfL corridors meet? <div><br></div><div>It's a bit creepy, like the hatch in Lost.</div><div><br></div>

fabruce · March 2015

@Arkady: i definitely want to see it ahah!

RajSahota · March 2015

Given how inconsistent TFLs efforts often are in communicating their proposals I will try and keep people up date when I can with news sent to councillors. <br><br>Below is the latest I have received from TFL- <br><br><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060">The Wells Terrace entrance to Finsbury Park station <b>will close on 20<sup>th</sup> April</b>. </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060">All Haringey bus routes serving Clifton Terrace and Wells Terrace are <b>UNAFFECTED</b> by this and will continue to operate as normal without diversion or change. These routes include:</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060">W3 – Finsbury Park – Hornsey – Alexandra Palace – Wood Green – North Tottenham – Northumberland Park</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060">W7 – Finsbury Park – Crouch End Broadway – Hornsey Central Health Centre - Muswell Hill Broadway </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060">210 – Finsbury Park – Stroud Green – Archway – Brent Cross </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060">From 20<sup>th</sup> April passengers alighting from bus services at Clifton Terrace will be unable to access Finsbury Park station directly from Wells Terrace and instead will need to walk approximately 100 meters, along a sign posted route via Stroud Green Road, to enter the station at Station Place. The Seven Sisters Road entrance to the station remains open as usual. </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060"> </span></p> <span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002060">In 2018 a new station entrance will open in a similar area to the existing Wells Terrace entrance</span><br>

RajSahota · March 2015

And below are answers to some FAQS TFL have provided me with. See also <a href="http://www.stroudgreenlabour.org.uk/blog/tfl-q-and-a-re-finsbury-parkhttp://">here.<br></a><br>Q: What has been done to explore ways of keeping this entrance open for the duration of the works there?<br><br>• London Underground (LU) thoroughly investigated how to carry out the improvement work at Finsbury Park Underground station in the safest, most efficient manner possible whilst keeping disruption in the area to a minimum.<br><br>• Keeping Wells Terrace entrance open during construction is not possible. The developer will be carrying out piling works in order to construct the tower above the existing Wells Terrance entrance corridor, making it unfeasible to keep this entrance open during construction.<br><br>Q: What measures are you taking while the Wells Terrance entrance is closed to relieve overcrowding?<br><br>• Safety is London Underground’s primary consideration in all aspects of the Finsbury Park improvement work.<br><br>• LU will be introducing ticket gates at Station Place and Seven Sisters Road station entrances from 20 April when the Wells Terrace station entrance closes. The new ticket gates will enable station staff to manage the safe flow of customers on the station and on the network, and they will allow for reduced congestion in the passageway entrances.<br><br>Q: Can the station/pavements cope with these numbers of people?<br><br>• We have undertaken a thorough congestion analysis of the pavement to ensure that the route between Wells Terrace and Station Place, and the Station Place entrance, can accommodate all those using the pavement and Station Place.<br><br>• Even during the busiest times of the day at the narrowest points, the pavement is sufficiently wide enough to accommodate these numbers.<br><br>• During the spiral staircase works in 2013-14, all interchanging national rail customers accessed the station via Station Place entrance. These numbers are very similar to the number of passengers who use Wells Terrace, and therefore we know that the station has sufficient capacity for these numbers.<br><br>• The introduction of gates will also allow us to better manage congestion in the station.<br><br>Q: Is there an impact on bus passengers?<br><br>• No. Bus routes are not being diverted or changed. Under the current arrangements buses alight at Clifton Terrace where customers enter at Wells Terrace entrance and walk down the corridor inside the station to reach the Tube platforms. From 20 April these buses will continue to alight at Clifton Terrace. Instead of entering at Wells Terrace customers will now walk approximately 100 meters further to access the platforms from the entrance at Station Place.<br><br>Q: Why are you gating the station?<br><br>• Finsbury Park Underground station is one of the few remaining stations without ticket gates and we have a responsibility both to make best use of public funding by taking steps to reduce fare evasion and to reduce security risks to the station and the Tube network.<br><br><br>

ADGS · March 2015

<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Those 'answers' from TfL are flat assertions that Everything Will Be Fine, Proles - Stop Questioning Your Betters. No working shown, and semi-literate touches such as "<span style="font-family: NeoSansStdRegular; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22.3999996185303px;">the pavement is sufficiently wide enough" hardly bolster confidence in their claims. As for the idea that ticket gates will help manage flow...surely the only way they can do that is by recreating Christmas' huge crushes outside the station on a regular basis?</span></span><div><span style="font-family: NeoSansStdRegular; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22.3999996185303px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: NeoSansStdRegular; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22.3999996185303px; background-color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></span></div>

maclondon · March 2015

What I would like to know is what is Islington committed to doing in regards to the pavement unde the railway and when? It has been mentioned by other including TfL. Better lighting, changes to the pavement and alike is a minimum. Ideally, they would also ban parking on the other side as this causes congestion on the road, increasing air pollution under the bridge.

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