The White Lion

krappyrubsnif · July 2015

Odd how people's experience varies. Personally I think it's all about expectations. Of course a posh middle class woman doesn't go in there alone. She takes one look and thinks she's going to get robbed, molested, raped or worse. (Mrs K would never pass the portals.) But when I (male, I confess) go for a quiet drink in there I see plenty of women (students, visitors.....local teachers.....shop workers. ....often on a budget) drinking happily unmolested, in groups or often on their own. Perception = everything. Nothing to fear but fear itself. (Actually a good reason to go there has always been that you're unlikely to be disturbed by anyone you don't want to meet. ... ..... unmolested? Very good for the concentration.)

miss annie · July 2015

Our experiences are completely different. I've never heard anything from there at all. Don't listen in on the general chatter, which I imagine is similar to that in any gathering where men or women have a few drinks, but never, ever heard catcalling or anything that might remotely be construed as harrassment.

miss annie · July 2015

Also, I am female and have been in a number of times in the past, with other women. It's the least testosterone filled place in Stroud Green after Season. Completely unthreatening.

TescoPigeon · July 2015

WLM will not be missed by me that's for sure. The smoking area is generally full of braying scruffy looking folk in their 40s and 50s peppered with one or two shady looking characters. The inside is tatty and poorly laid out. Devonshire House makes an interesting contrast. A more diverse clientele (some students and some couples besides the usual geezers). I like Devonshire house because they serve double g&t's at £3.35 and you can't argue with that! But tbh I'd rather a snazzy wine bar or noodle shop take their places. The people from WLM can always move on to the Park Tavern

miss annie · July 2015

I agree with Krappy. I think it's very sad that people move here because it's a good community, a bit rough around the edges with an interesting mix of people, shops, pubs etc. and then stomp about demanding social cleansing so that they can live in a boring area full of people exactly like them. Might as well move to Upper St home of the bland.

NorthNineteen · July 2015

Yup - was down in Peckham last night and very similar concerns.

Mirandola · July 2015

nowt wrong with scruffy folk.

Mirandola · July 2015

nowt wrong with scruffy folk

Toddlesocks · July 2015

lol, atleast it's a change from people whining about scruffy pigeons

I am not often in SGR, but am always surprised at how friendly people are, particularly the crew outside WLM, would be very sad to see it go. I occasionally have a coffee after shopping ( quick and easy) never had a problem.

therattle · July 2015

I've never been to WLM but I think it's important for there to be a mix of venues catering to different crowds. it can't all be gentrified pubs serving craft beers at £5 a pint. <br>

krappyrubsnif · July 2015

The most threatening place in Stroud Green IMHO is the Park Tavern. (Apart from the Twelve Pins on Seven Sisters Road during an Arsenal match of course.) <div><br></div><div>At the PT, the Guinness is excellent, very nice bar staff, good atmosphere, pleasant little garden.....however. I went in there to meet someone for a pint and a game of chess, and I can honestly say I felt I was being stared at like I'd gone in wearing a pair of pink pyjamas and blue lipstick, or had crossed some other line. From conversations overheard, it also appears a fair few of the customers there are deeply apprehensive and upset at the prospect of a lot of students - STUDENTS - *you know what assholes they are* - coming to Stroud Green and taking over. </div><div><br></div><div>Which, from the point of view of their boozer, they may have reason to be, of course. Just saying.</div>

CityOfSin · July 2015

How does the PT stay open? Is it run as a hobby? Never seen more than 4 people in it at one time.

kreuzkav · July 2015

@ Cityof Sin. If I'm not cycling back from work I cut up charteris road on the way back from FP tube. The pub is busy at 7. Probably 20 or more people inside or out. I agree with KR that its drinkers stare if you don't fit the stereotype. <div><br></div><div>As regards the WLM, I feel the outside boozers put people off. I think they're okay but they drink all day (how do they afford it). I will say they do throw odd comments at women. I've met a few women who have told me so. The few times I go in I find once in, it's probably one of the most sedate and non-threatening pubs around. Sometimes it's too quiet and you get the man sitting alone listening in on your conversation. Not a place to take a date, then I guess most people wouldn't.</div>

bigspoon · July 2015

<div>park tavern is rammed all the time, especially on weekends. they're doing just fine.</div>

GRGNTN · July 2015

@<;a href="http://stroudgreen.org/profile/5565/TescoPigeon" class="Username" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration: none; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background: 0px 0px rgb(245, 245, 245);">TescoPigeon</a> hits the nail on the head. <div>As we've all made very clear experiences and opinions can differ. Mine is staying the same on the basis of witnessing the harassment on several occasions, seeing the plume of smoke every night. It's a shame really because they sell nice beer as a decent price. </div><div><br></div><div>I'd love for it to stay as a licenced premises, just a better one. Maybe somewhere with some decent music. </div>

JoeV · July 2015

To me that sounds like saying if an establishment doesn't meet my standards or cater to my needs it shouldn't exist. <div><br></div><div>I've never been in the WLM and have no desire to do so, but that doesn't mean I think it should change or be closed down. If you don't like it, don't go. There are plenty of other places.</div>

graeme · July 2015

Park Tavern is the only place I've been threatened, and asked outside for a fight by some sectarian bigot, all the time I've been in London. What an absolute shithole of a place. With a new influx of students/residents, it would appear that the old guard of the PT don't like newcomers, despite having been newcomers themselves once.

Papa · July 2015

I've been drinking in the Park Tavern for the whole of the past decade I've lived in the area. It used to be our regular late night haunt and I'm sure me and my mates could easily stray into the middle-class 'newcomer' category.<div><br></div><div>We've always been welcomed in there by Dennis, the landlord, and the rest of the bar staff and had some good times with the locals.<br><div><br></div><div>Beyond the odd bit of debate you'd expect in any proper old school drinking pub, I've never experienced any problems. (Sorry to hear that you did Graeme.)</div></div><div><br></div><div>I've easily had just as much attitude on as many occasions from beery leery twentysomething lads in the Dairy, Fullback or Stapleton.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px;">I don't drink in the Park Tavern much nowadays, as I've got young kids, but still pop in occasionally.</span><br></div><div><br></div><div>I'm surprised you got stared at like that Krappy - you must be turning into a student.</div>

krappyrubsnif · July 2015

It wasn't my age or clothes or accent Papa L. It was the chess board. "Bringing one of those new-fangled posh twat things into my boozer. W****r!" I've never had attitude from anyone in the Stapleton. Just pity I expect. Anyway I have my poodle cross to protect me.

fabruce · July 2015

Krappy this comment leaves me speechless to be honest. What a loser they guy(s) who said it.

graeme · July 2015

To be fair, it was the barman who actually stepped in to put the twat in his place, I was well outnumbered!

kreuzkav · July 2015

This thread is so interesting because it represents the way Stroud Green is going. WLM is a pub I remember from 20 years ago. There was no Old Dairy. The Faltering Fullback was the most alternative one around and it was more a locals mixed with indie-rock/rave crowd. I've never been in the Park Tavern and didn't frequent The Osbourne (where Nandos is now) as they are/were a bit too rough for me or that's how they seem(ed). I used to go in The Twelve Pins with friends as I like a good pint of Guiness and remember it when it was the Finsbury Park Tavern. Never had any hassle, but in my 20s was a bit rough around the edges myself. <div><br></div><div>I'm fairly chilled now about SGR turning into a place full of tapas bars, moneyed lad pubs (Old Dairy and increasingly so, Faltering Fullback), trendy restaurants (Brisket). This is London 2015. Despite the credit crunch SGR seems to be choc full of all sorts of bars, restaurants where 20 years ago there was Cats, Jai Krishna, Porchetta (more rustic version) and a few places like the Hummingbird (I think). Resistance is futile. I find it too much but I'm getting old. Well 40s. Vagabond is the best new addition. </div><div><br></div><div>I agree JoeV, we need to remember the people who are long term working class residents who see this area being chewed up by the developers and rich. As is London and the country.</div>

graeme · July 2015

SG is still in the dark ages compared to a lot of London, Kreuzkav. Would actually suggest that SG is being left behind (probably no bad thing) given that there is little room for expansion, and many long-term residents/landlords are not selling on to the next generation/are families/housing association/council. It feels like the kind of place you come for a few years, hope you can maybe put down roots, realise it's overpriced for what's on offer, and you move on.<div><br></div><div>Perhaps the student accommodation will shake things up. The hiatus of progress at City North is perhaps a pointer that appetite for this area has been squeezed? I left the area recently because there was little to keep me interested at the prices being asked, and as a transport hub Finsbury Park station has singularly failed to keep up with demand caused by the population expansions happening further north up the line. If a big chunk of the working population cannot afford the area, and struggle to commute from the area, all you're going to have is students, pensioners, and the unemployed. It's not a great attraction.</div>

ADGS · July 2015

As a poncy incomer, I cannot think of a single establishment existing in the real world which I'd be happy to have replace either of the local Spoons. Brunch of champions, plus cheap drinks; yes, some of the regulars are irksome, but so's 90% of the human race, so that's fairly inevitable. I hope they somehow stay operational in their current form.

Mirandola · July 2015

What ADGS said.

kreuzkav · July 2015

What ADGS said too. A memory came into my head. Getting Lira (old italian money) in 2001 at the Thomas Cook bureau (near Nat West on Seven Sister's road opposite Finsbury Park gates). The man behind the counter said he was an ex-manager of WLM and was sad that the once wood beamed WLM was like an airport lounge now. How this conversation started I do not know. It was probably the finest looking pub on SGR road at one stage.

sg_mike · July 2015

Same as Mirandola. I like the Park Tavern for a late night drink or before football games, I find it more welcoming than most other pubs in the area. Don't know why, think it's just a very rare WYSIWYG pub in the area these days.

CityOfSin · July 2015

<div>I'm aware that many on this forum are opposed to the changes in FP and SG, but I've honestly <span style="font-size: 10pt;">never lived anywhere where the opening of new restaurants are considered a bad thing.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div>Surely they're something most residents can enjoy? (Perhaps not every night of course). Compared to other areas, SGR is still a good mix of interesting shops, cheap eats, casual cafes and a handful of more upscale options. I don't personally need the wig shops or the bookies, but they have their place on SGR just as much as the newcomers. You don't have to like or eat in the tapas bar or smarter pubs but plenty of other people do. Would you prefer empty buildings? It's important to remember that a lot of the newcomers are owned and run by SGR locals.</div><div><br></div><div>It's interesting to read the varying opinions on the WLM and it would be nice to think that it could be saved, but ultimately Wetherspoons must have it's reasons for selling it and the final call is theirs. For me the bigger shock is the Glassworks in Angel being on the 'for sale' list, as it's always rammed and caters for a real mix of locals.</div>

therattle · July 2015

@CityOf Sin, I don't think the issue is opening of new restaurants per se, it's what they replace. There should be space for old and new to coexist together. If new developments push out places like WLM (even if I don't go there) and other cheaper spots, the nature of the street and surrounding community changes, becomes more homogenous, and most likely blander. One thing I like about SG is that it is still a bit rough round the edges (even if those edges have been smoothed in recent years). A range of people lives in the area and there should be shops, bars and restaurants that cater to those across the range, not just those who can afford the pricier ones. <br>

CityOfSin · July 2015

Of course, I agree that there should be a mix. Though the WLM is just for sale, along with others, so I'm not sure we can say it was 'pushed out' by the new developments.<div><br></div><div>Personally I'm grateful that SG got independents like La Fabrica, Tufo, and Max's, rather than a Zizzi, All Bar One or similar!</div>

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