The White Lion

Ali

The round central bar is being reinstated in what  on Monday will have been the WLM.<div><br></div><div>re opens in approx 1 month.</div><div><br></div><div>Are the heritage panels being rescued ?  if they are I was wondering where they could go?<br><div><br></div></div>

krappyrubsnif

I will look in tomorrow night to see what's what. Never heard back from the new owners. Doesn't augur well does it?

kreuzkav

I've self-edited this because ranting about how the area is going is a bit futile.  It lets of steam but I'm sure you don't want to read constant ranting.  <div><br></div><div>Have a lovely Sunday!</div>

verga

Hmm, I am not sure this area is really changing that much, and won't actually change that much either. Given that half the streets seem to be owned by the Council, and the other half by Dinglis, and neither of these two are releasing much onto the market at the moment, it will stay as it is: transient, a bit young, very mixed demographic with inordinately expensive housing, and a very mixed high street with some very busy/useful places, and some dire businesses scraping along because they don't do what they do very well at all. 

miss annie

It's changed a bit since I've been here. Been visiting regularly for twenty plus years, lived here for six. In the early 90s I was walking out with a chap who lived in a bedsit in Victoria Rd. It was rough as a bear's proverbial round here then, I don't scare easily and lived above a pub in Camden at the time (also rough), but would not walk from the tube to Victoria Rd on my own. It has changed a lot, some things for the better and some things not - in my opinion.

kreuzkav

I've just read the previous pages of this thread.  The Old Dairy opened in 1999.  I was at its opening.  There was at least one free drink.  The Noble,nowThe Hopsmith was a gay pub called The Flag up to the late 90s/early 2000s. 

ADGS

A friend was looking at the Spoons website and apparently the WLM had been open for 29 years (I genuinely couldn't remember if it was there when I moved in, in the space year 2000AD). So might that have been a reopening after refurbishment or something?<div><br></div><div>The Flag's buzzer entry system always looked a bit of a risk given the area was rougher (and the nation as a whole more homophobic) back then - I always assumed people waiting to be let in must sometimes get some aggro from passers-by.</div>

gardener-joe

...

miss annie

Is the gay sauna still round the back of the Dairy?

Gloria

Prior to The Flag, I think the pub was called The Tap and Spile and/or The Racecourse...or I maybe wrong, it is 20 or so years ago. Then the bizarre Big Fat Sofa. The Flag had the atmosphere of a mortuary and the faint smell of amyl nitrate and stale semen. If Jo(e) Malone had bottled it, banging in some mandarin and essence of wok, I'm sure they would have been onto a winner. Time moves on. In the mid to late nineties the area was as rough as a badgers backside.

krappyrubsnif

I've made contact with Urban and they tell me the new pub is scheduled to open at the very end of Feb. I know no more - yet. I'll be sending an email in the morning so if there are questions anyone wants answering, let me know I was in the Stapleton for a few minutes earlier with the new lodger, and told him how in the 90s it was a pub to avoid - slashed seats, fights and vomit in the toilets. He was impressed. By the way the new lodger is Spanish and offering Spanish lessons, very reasonable terms, any takers? I will try the expression 'rough as a badger's backside' on him. Pleasingly colloquial.

NorthNineteen

How was the area so rough? ANd was it worse than places like Holloway and Cally Road, or was just everywhere equally bad?<br><br>I remember staying at my Aunts in Crouch HIll during the 90s and for a naive young boy from Dorset it didn't feel that rough.<br>

miss annie

<p>It was really rough round the station, it's impossible to explain now as I don't know of anywhere in London that is anything like it was in the late 80s, early 90s now, Loads of undesirables hanging about, derelict looking buildings, just really rundown and noticeably unscrubbed up. There weren't any little coffee shops it was bleak. I think that the crime rate was higher round here then, or maybe it was just the perception of it but it certainly felt more edgy - and not in a good way. Queen's Drive and the roads off it were notorious for kerb crawling (stopped, maybe 10 years ago, by the barriers that went up in the roads), and some of that overflowed round the station.</p><p>Crouch Hill and Crouch End were boho down at heel not rough at the time - I moved into a massive house backing on to the little recreation centre that used to be above the skate park area of Parkland Walk in mid 90s. That area was always old people, Hornsey Art School alumni, writers,arty types, people that had lived there for years, </p><p>The case of the lady being dragged off the street by the tube and raped and set on fire was what mostly made me nervous at the time.</p>

Ali

<p> This web site gives the names of the pubs in N4 and what they used to be called</p><p><a href="http://www.pubology.co.uk/indexes/n4.html">http://www.pubology.co.uk/indexes/n4.html</a></p><p>The Hopsmiths  place first became a pub in the early days of Weatherspoons and was called Marlers.  It must of been in the first ten pubs they had.  The Flag used to be blinds down and lots of naughty films.</p><p>It is a shame that the association  Spoons has had locally for such a long time has gone </p><p> </p><p>Lost pubs project has some other stuff here</p><p> </p><p><a href="http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/london/n4_finsbury.html">http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/london/n4_finsbury.html</a></p><p> </p><p>This  is a list of pubs in N$ 1944</p><p> </p><p><a href="http://pubshistory.com/London1944/London1944N4.shtml">http://pubshistory.com/London1944/London1944N4.shtml</a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>; :-&

TheMimsy

@ Miss Annie I Lived in Kings Cross 94 to 99 and it was rough, too. A far cry from what it looks like now, the Granary bulding, Central Saint Martin, the Pond, Dishoom... i remember the rape of a foreign tourist on the canal tow path by my flat which was widely reported in the media and the police knocking door to door and interviewing residents...

Arkady

@Ali - thanks for those links, really interesting stuff.

Papa

When I was growing up in the 1990s (outside of London but nearby in Hertfordshire) we used to regularly come into town and I distinctly remember quite a lot of London being a dump. <div><br></div><div>I never knew round here well though back then.<div><br></div><div>London is a totally different place now to what it was like when I was growing up. I think there's little doubt that for all its problems it is better now.</div></div><div><br></div><div>We used to go raving out the back of Kings Cross in the Goods Yard days - now that was a very different place to what it is now.</div>

miss annie

<p>Any of these ring a bell? <a href="http://www.kentishtowner.co.uk/2013/03/01/top-5-lost-london-nightclubs-of-the-90s/">http://www.kentishtowner.co.uk/2013/03/01/top-5-lost-london-nightclubs-of-the-90s/</a></p><p><br></p>;

krappyrubsnif

News from a helpful gentleman at Urban Pubs.<div style="font-style: normal;"><br></div><div>Reopening scheduled for 2nd March.   </div><div><span style="font-style: italic;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-style: italic;">"<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 10pt;">We will be spending around £250k on the pub, moving the bar back into the central position where it once lived before, creating a dining room at the rear and bringing a local pub feel back, Myself and my business partner Malcolm Heap have had numerous successes over the past decade or more restoring pigs back to their former glory. One such pub that we did locally is The Old Dairy which we operated in our last company prior to selling it to Greene King. Food will play an important role in the success of the new White Lion but it will always be a pub first and foremost - a place for people to meet, share a drink and some conversation and be greeted by familiar faces from behind the bar." </span></span></div><div><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 10pt;">And they will probably re-use the old photos.</span></div>

krappyrubsnif

And these are their other pubs:<div><br></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The Whippet Inn Kensal Rise, 64-66 Chamberlayne Road, NW10 3JJ, T: 02089688142</span><br style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Old Ship Hackney, 2 Sylvester Path, E8 1EN, T: 02089862732</span><br style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Lord Wargrave, 40-42 Brendon Street, London, W1H 5HE, T: 02077230559</span><br style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The Rose Pub and Kitchen,  272 New Cross Road, London, SE14 6AA, T: 02086923193</span><br style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The Wheatsheaf, 2 Upper Tooting Road, London, SW17 7PG, T: 02086722805</span><br style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Wells Street Pizza 184 Well Street, London, E9 6QT: 02030581876</span><br style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The Bat & Ball Unit 1110/1111 The Street, Stratford - Westfield, E20 1EN</span><br></div>

Arkady

I confess I'm quite excited about this.

krappyrubsnif

I've already secured my free opening night drink.

Arkady

Perhaps we should have a SG.org social on opening night. That should scare 'em.

NorthNineteen

@miss annie what a great website, brought back quite a few memories even if I only came to London in 2001 all were still open except Velvet Rooms (which I've never even heard of).  Very close to my heart as I was very into dance music, and still am - clubbing slightly less these days though had a very fun night recently at The Egg off York Way.  Camden Palace was a regular haunt for me though obviously that is still going  under a different guise.  There are quite a few decent nightclubs still about but very few weekly nights.<br><br>p.s. I'm excited about White Lion MKII, date is in the diary for the opening!<br><br><br>

miss annie

<p>Ah, I could wax lyrical about Camden Palace in the glory days of the 80s for a good long time. All my favourites are long gone, two of the most excellent venues lost to Crossrail. </p><p>I recommend Dave Haslam's Life After Dark if you are at all interested in British nightlife, it's fascinating, and slightly sad at how many glorious histories end up with 'it's now a carpark'. I've had the very great pleasure of chatting to him a number of times about the history of clubbing, he's a walking encyclopedia of nightspots.</p><p><a href="https://www.waterstones.com/book/life-after-dark/dave-haslam/9780857206985">https://www.waterstones.com/book/life-after-dark/dave-haslam/9780857206985</a>.</p>;

twinspark

@ Ali<div><br></div><div>Marlers Bar , </div><div><br></div><div>Tim Martin was one of the partners of Marlers,  I used it a bit and it was not bad, <span style="font-size: 10pt;">I recall a lunchtime drink watching George Michael and Andrew Ridgeley 'helping' Pepsi, the backing singer in Wham, </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">move from her flat above the garage on Sparsholt Road. Bit of a problem fitting her standard lamp in their </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Ford Capri I seem to remember.  </span></div><div><br></div><div>Marler's had about 4 pubs,  but Tim M. soon <span style="font-size: 10pt;">fell out with the other owners and left to set up Wetherspoons - the WLM was the 3rd or </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">4th pub they opened. The Mk 1 WLM was pretty good </span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">and infinitely better than it's </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">successor which I haven't set foot in since it was transformed to look</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">like Luton airport departure lounge with its high tables and orange </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">& yellow carpet tiles </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">and worst of</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">all clear glass windows - I'd love to meet the clown who </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">deemed it acceptable for </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">pubs to have plain windows, a design travesty that is wrong in </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">every way. </span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

NorthNineteen

@ miss annie<div><br></div><div>I'm thinking I may go to a Peach Camden Palace reunion over Easter...</div><div><br></div><div>That books sounds interesting, thanks.</div>

Papa

@Miss Annie <div><br></div><div>Five out of five for me on having been to those now gone 1990s clubs mentioned.</div><div><br></div><div>That's a good article. </div><div><br></div><div>@North Nineteen - when we went to the Velvet Rooms it was for Swerve, which was a drum and bass midweek night. Fabio and Grooverider among others I seem to remember.</div>

djmattyoung

I've dj'd at all of those venues in the late 90's early to mid 2000's apart from the Velvet Rooms.<div><br></div><div>Papa L - I remember Swerve nights at the Velvet Rooms but never went as not a big DnB fan, although I did frequent Metalheadz Sunday's at the Blue Note in Old St in the late 90's. </div><div><br></div><div>Used to go to Bar Rumba a lot in the 90's for Mondays with Giles Peterson or Wednesday which was house music. </div><div><br></div><div>from 1998 to 2000 I ran a night at a club above a Chinese restaurant at 13 Gerrard St (China Town), the place was called The Clinic (now cocktail revolution I think), it was a crazy place.</div><div><br></div>

NappyFox

The Hopsmiths is alright but stay away from the beer sticks. A shame because they're lovely little chorizo-style hard sausages that taste delicious. I went in tonight and when I picked up the jar a cloud of fruit flies swarmed out. Makes my skin crawl a little bit actually. I told the barman but he laughed at me and said they were probably just sitting there for somewhere to go. I told him they usually lay their eggs in rotting food and he should watch out because once they're adults they turn into a real nuciance to get rid of. He said he'd look into it. At the end of the night they wrapped the beer sticks backup in cling film and put them away. Don't think I'll be trying the beer sticks again.