The White Lion

Papa

The pint I paid the suspected £5.60 for was Goose Island, so imported US craft beer. <div>All the same though that is an astonishing price that is only being charged because they can get away with it.</div><div><br></div><div>@gardeder-Joe, on the pubenomics thing. </div><div><br></div><div>What always amuses me is that busier gastrated pubs (which surely make more profit overall and could probably cut prices) get away with charging more for their beer that quieter old man pubs (which are probably struggling and so could do with higher prices). </div><div><br></div><div>A clear indication to me that:</div><div><br></div><div>a) gastrated pubs charge what they can get away with and probably benchmark themselves upwards, ie that place down the road charges X, we'll try that plus 10p.</div><div><br></div><div>b) it's might be us mug punters failing the market here by soaking up inflated prices</div><div><br></div><div>And I'm sure whatever the price of beer in the New White Lion, I'll end up handing my card over the bar on regular occasion and quite liking the place.</div>

Arkady

<span style="font-size: 10pt;">@PapaL - I'm not happy with the word 'pubenomics'</span>

NorthNineteen

£6 for Neck Oil!"!!!? Maybe for Gamma Ray.  Neck Oil is only a session beer.<br>

Papa

@Arkady - is it a bit too pube?

Arkady

Quite.

Papa

Tone lowered.

south_to_north

<p>@papal </p><p>One has to remember that each one of the World's End, the Old Dairy, and the Stapleton are all owned by larger pub groups (World's End and the Stapleton are both owned by Greene King, not sure about the Old Dairy). The general manager of each pub is hence going to have an incentive package tied to their P&L, which will give them a nice bonus towards the end of the year. It's in the interest of GM therefore to squeeze as much money as possible out of their punters without causing them to take their custom elsewhere.</p><p> </p><p>The thing about the Old Dairy which is interesting is that I'm sure a lot of their revenues come from food. People are far less discerning about how much they pay for a pint when they have already committed to spending a hefty amount of cash on a meal out. It's not like they're going to pack up shop and go to another pub for 50p to a £1 difference a pint. So the GM understands that he can extract more revenue per paying customer with minimal loss of overall custom. </p><p> </p><p>They do try and avoid having direct comparisons however. All the wines that they stock are different, as are many of the beers. Regarding the premium pale ales that have the heftiest price tags, Old Dairy stocks Camden Pale, The World's End Meantime London Pale, and Stapleton sell some terrible Green King stuff (for something like 4.60!). Having worked in a pub in Highgate where there is a lot of competition I know that this is very deliberate. Do they stock some of the same beers? Of course. But they avoid it where they can to prevent that direct comparison and lose some of the drinkers who can easily just walk over the road. I bet when you paid that much for a gamma ray they weren't stocking it at the hopsmiths or the stapleton.</p><p>On your second point regarding we mug punters - that's probably right. In the pub I worked in in Highgate I remember hearing one of the managers say "people will pay whatever here and won't even bat an eyelid". This was partly due to the fact that incomes in Highgate are very high, but also because that pub had by far the biggest garden in the area. If we think of the Old Dairy, it has the best dining room of any pub in the area by far and is arguably the most family friendly. Hence it doesn't have much competition in the immediate vicinity for the middle-class pub lunch crowd. Going back to the question of the White Lion, if they offer a similar product then we could see this change, which in turn could affect prices. I don't think it'll make prices go down, but it'll stop either from taking any liberties with their pricing strategy.</p>

south_to_north

Wow..... didn't mean to write such a huge bloody essay - but you get my point hopefully haha

CityOfSin

Some good points there, @south_to_north. Just chuckling at your description of a general manager's 'nice bonus' - not as nice as you might think, especially where Greene King is concerned. Important to remember that prices (for pubs managed by the larger groups) are usually very little to do with the GM.<div><br></div><div>If the new White Lion has great food - i.e. a notch above standard pub fare - maybe it will encourage The Old Dairy to up their game. Their menu reads well but I've never been wildly impressed with the food, though they are always busy...</div>

south_to_north

<p>The pub I worked in was a Fuller's pub and the GM had some say over pricing, and the bonus was 4 figures - so nice enough I suppose! But it's a point worth raising that it's not necessarily the same everywhere. Almost all pubs however have a lot of say over how they price their food, and that's often where they can really rinse you if they feel so inclined and they feel they can get away with it. </p><p>I haven't eaten there either. I'm sure it would be fine, but I can't afford to eat out that often and when I can I'd much rather go to St John's tavern for something special (if it's pub food I'm after). </p><p>Btw, just looked it up and the Old Dairy is also owned by Greene King under the subsidiary of the Metropolitan Pub company. So it seems like greene king really likes stroud green!</p><p> </p>

south_to_north

(....that would also explain why they all stock Greene King IPA.... which is a terrible beer)

NorthNineteen

Do Greene King own Antic then (or Gregarious Ltd as I think they are known now)?<br>

south_to_north

<p>I believe so. When I spoke to one of the bartenders at the Stapleton Tavern he said they were owned by Greene King. There's no other reason why they would only stock Greene King pale ales at the expense of the vastly more popular alternatives....</p>

Arkady

I thought Antic leased it from Green King, but I may be wrong.

south_to_north

<p> </p>

CityOfSin

@south_to_north Ah, suppose it depends on the company then.<div><br></div><div>I think we're pretty lucky when it comes to pubs in Stroud Green / Finsbury Park. People will always moan about something but I do think the majority try hard to please the locals.</div><div><br></div><div>Looking forward to trying the new White Lion but I do hope people continue to support the rest, especially the non-SGR ones like the Bedford Tavern, W B Yeats, etc.</div>

south_to_north

<a href="http://whatpub.com/pubs/NLD/5609/stapleton-tavern-finsbury-park">http://whatpub.com/pubs/NLD/5609/stapleton-tavern-finsbury-park</a> Yep... it's leased....

Papa

All good points South to North,<div><br></div><div>Just to add, I agree with CityOfSin, we are phenomenally well served with decent pubs round here.<div>Most people living elsewhere would be pleased if they had just one of them.</div></div>

south_to_north

<p>@papal @cityofsin I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I forget, but then I go back to where I grew up.....</p><p>Let's just say Croydon isn't the best borough in London as far as pubs are concerned......</p>

south_to_north

@CityofSin I'm sure you're right. To give the Old Dairy some credit, that place is absolutely massive and its overheads must be huge. That probably goes a long way to explaining the high prices as well....

miss annie

Croydon is not London at all, except in the minds of council officials. It is in Surrey. I have strong and firmly held views on this sort of thing.

NorthNineteen

So on the same level I presume Crouch End, Hornsey and even Stapleton Hall Road aren't London?

miss annie

I'm not sure which level you use. Mine is if it doesn't have a London postcode, it ain't London.

NorthNineteen

Fair enough, I was picking up on your council officials comment. Croydon became a part of Greater London the same time the Municipal Borough of Hornsey (incl the aformentioned places) did - just under 51 years ago.<div><br></div><div>Croydon is just as much of London as Wembley, Brentofrd or Enfield is to me.  But then I have equally strong views - albeit being a councilish official</div>

miss annie

Municipal Borough is a depressing phrase. It smells of chlorine and tower blocks, spam and polyester. I like London borough, or even better, Royal Borough. Our head office used to be in Brentford, grim old place. Much nicer now it's in Piccadilly.

Ali

<p>Are we not  in Ossultone  in the county of Middlesex?</p><p> </p><p><img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Gray1824_middlesex.jpg" width="788" height="965"></p><p> </p><p><a href="http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/middx/vol6/pp1-5">http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/middx/vol6/pp1-5</a></p><p> </p>;

miss annie

<p>I am, think you Haringeyers are in Edmonton.</p><p>Middlesex doesn't exist now does it, even though a lot of bodies still use it - MCC, WI etc.</p>

Arkady

Nope, Hornsey parish was in the Finsbury division of Ossultone.

NorthNineteen

I'd never heard of Ossultone before - fascinating stuff

NorthNineteen

Also, it appears the new pub will be called the White Lion