Stroud Green Beautification

Arkady

Thanks so much for that Reg, keep us informed. I’d very much like to attend. Are you involved in Finfuture? What can you tell us about the organisation? What does it consider its geographical limits to be? Do you know when the offices on Seven Sisters Rd are open, I’d like to make some contacts there.<br><br>Given that the Act prohibits Neighbourhood Forums from overlapping you will forgive me for getting slightly twitchy at the expression ‘Finsbury Park including Stroud Green’. I’m not an expert, but my gut feeling is that a Neighbourhood Plan aimed at Stroud Green Road and its hinterland (i.e. primarily Victorian stock conservation areas surrounding a high street with very little room for new developments) might not overlap well with the rather more mixed area around and west of Finsbury Park station, which is a redevelopment hotspot with quite different planning needs. Similarly, does Finfuture’s definition incorporate *all* of Stroud Green, right up to the top of the hill?<br><br>I suppose the residents south of Tollington Park Rd ought to be canvassed, but I would be uncomfortable with any proposal that partitioned Stroud Green Ward or Conservation Area for planning purposes.<br>To those asking ‘what next?’: ‘Stage One’ as proposed by the act is for Neighbourhood Forums to form and define themselves prior to proposing themselves to the council. I’m working on making contacts with possible member organisations that might be interested in one for Stroud Green, and I will also be contacting the Councils for advice. I will continue to pass on anything I learn. From what Reg says we may want to wait for the aforementioned conference before making any firm decisions or proposals. For those of you on here also interested in getting involved (and it’s very pleasing to see how many of us there seem to be) I’d suggest the following discussion points:<br><br>1) Should SG have its own Neighbourhood Forum (NF) or would it best be part of a neighbouring NF, or several? There may be pros for the latter options that I’m not considering.<br>2) If it is to be covered by its own NF, what factors should be considered when suggesting boundaries to the Council(s)?<br>3) Aside from those that I have mentioned already, which local organisations might be interested in getting involved with the Neighbourhood Forum?<br><br>Arky<br>

Al

<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I came across this  quite by accident.  Seems like something like this <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>has been tried before <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A href="http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/durham/piazza.htm"><FONT color=#800080>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/durham/piazza.htm</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>; <P> </P>

Ian

I've noticed a bit of a move towards taking over street railings with plastic signs to promote various things, the latest and most egregious example is x-it which has three banners tied to the railings outside the shop on Stroud Green Road. They have just put effort into making their shop front nice, so it's a bit disappointing that they have done this. I guess the council can deal with this? <br>

ChangN4N6

Had anyone tried the new Nailz and Tatoo shop near this shop? Misscarra? Seems good value but would like a recommendation before I get the Arsenal crest on my bum. Chang.

ChangN4N6

Al, re Charter Court beautification - interesting link and a good idea for an area that needs it although CP = mixed rpts. But I notice it stalled 10 years ago. Was this cos of lack of money or council disinterest I wonder?

Arkady

It looks like a lot of ground-work was done back then that could be used again to push that part of the project forward.<br><br>Does anyone know anything about the Tollington Park Action Group? I was given the contact details for a Mr Vince Moore by Islington Council, but the email address doesn’t work.<br><br>I don’t suppose anyone here knows anything about the Crouch Hill Neighbourhood Forum which is supposedly being established?<br>

Kristian

I am a conservation professional and have just become a resident of Tollington Park. Reader’s of this thread might find the following useful: UPVC windows: Dwelling houses (but not flats or commercial premises) have permitted development rights to replace their windows, even with uPVC, in conservation areas unless an Article 4 Direction is served by the Council to remove those permitted development rights. All conservation areas in Islington, for example, have an Article 4 Direction served on them but this is not the case with Haringey. Lobbying the Council to serve an Article 4 Direction is the only way to prevent further loss of timber windows and replacement with uPVC windows. Contrary to what uPVC window manufacturers publish in their brochures it is widely accepted amongst experts, based on the latest studies, that the replacement of timber windows cannot be justified on grounds of energy efficiency or cost saving. Estate Agents advise that they may devalue a property and area. Furthermore, uPVC windows never accurately replicate the elegant appearance of timber windows. It is an unsustainable approach to replace timber windows, which are capable of being refurbished, with uPVC windows as their manufacture consumes high levels of energy, they are incapable of being repaired and have a life span of only 20 years or less, after which they go to land-fills. Historic timber windows are usually made from the highest quality seasoned Baltic softwood and if maintained will last for centuries, unlike modern kiln dried softwoods which have a much shorter lifespan. Refurbishing historic timber windows is, therefore, a sound financial decision. If timber windows are adequately maintained (and draught proofed/secondary glazed) they can be a match for uPVC windows in terms of energy efficiency. Grants for heritage / townscape improvements: Unfortunately many English Heritage / Council schemes have been cut. The Heritage Lottery Fund has, however, seen its funding increase substantially: http://www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/programmes/Pages/townscapeheritageinitiative.aspx http://www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/programmes/Pages/yourheritage.aspx There are a number of other sources of funding available. Street clutter: Most streets can benefit from rationalisation of signage and other visual clutter. English Heritage has produced guidance on this. http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/caring/save-our-streets/ Conservation Areas: English Heritage has also produced guidance on conservation areas at risk which links to useful information http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/caring/heritage-at-risk/types/conservation-areas-at-risk/

Arkady

Kristian – welcome to the neighbourhood.<br><br>Thanks so much for this information. Coincidently I learned about the PVC/Article 4 problem last night (to my horror) at the Haringey Stroud Green CAAC meeting. It’s something that we may well lobby Haringey about in the near future.<br><br>The reason that I’ve been quiet on this topic of late is that I am attending a series of meetings in January & February that will give me a much clearer idea of the route forward. These are:<br><br>1) A meeting with the chap who is proposing a Crouch Hill Neighbourhood Forum. They are much more advanced in the process than Stroud Green, and have had assistance from a government-funded consultant. I’m hoping to learn from their experience, as well as unpick the thorny issue of Stroud Green/Crouch Hill boundaries as the two Forums cannot overlap. There will be representatives from Archway and Hillrise there.<br><br>2) A meeting concerning the establishment of a cross-borough Neighbourhood Forum by the Highgate Society at the end of January<br><br>3) A FinFuture meeting at the start of February (I think) concerning the impact of the Localism Act on Finsbury Park<br><br>4) The first AGM of the Haringey Stroud Green Conservation Area Advisory Committee (SGCAAC) at the end of February, during which we hope to adopt a constitution. We hope that this will have an opening talk on the history of Stroud Green. I will be advertising this on SG.org as soon as the publicity is ready.<br><br>By the end of this process I hope to be able to report back here on the prospect of creating a Neighbourhood Forum for Stroud Green, including how it would be constituted and what its boundaries might be.<br><br>Kristian – I wonder if you would consider establishing a CAAC for the Tollington Park Conservation Area? I asked Islington whether one existed, and they gave me a defunct email address so I’m assuming there isn’t one at present. That means that there is no public scrutiny of planning applications that are submitted within the conservation area, and the boroughs can be quite negligent (though I think Islington are better than Haringey in that regard).<br>

Kristian

<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=author1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Thank you</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=author1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=author1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Perhaps I should have said – I am the conservation officer for Islington (no offence taken on the negligence - we do our best with limited resources and have to rely on public monitoring/reporting) so I’m afraid that establishing a CAAC would result in a conflict of interests.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Rest assured, however, that the area will now benefit from twice daily patrols.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=author1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=author1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Incidentally, I also sit on the Environment Committee of the Highgate Society <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=author1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=author1><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>If you require any professional advice in relation to Islington you may wish to contact me at Islington Council.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>If you require any advice in relation to Haringey you may wish contact me via the Highgate Society. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P>

Arkady

Ha ha ha! I’m learning so much about diplomacy these days.<br><br>No offence meant Kristian, as noted you guys are notably better at enforcement than this side of the line, and I’m aware that resources are thin on the ground. Absolutely brilliant that you’re got in touch. Can you confirm for me that Islington Planning department are unaware of existing CAACs for Tollington and Stroud Green Conservation Areas? I’d expect them to be commenting on applications if they do exist. If they don’t exist then all the more reason to establish a cross-borough Neighbourhood Forum with conservation embedded in the Neighbourhood Plan.<br><br>I’ll PM you for contact details. And maybe I’ll see you at the Highgate Society meeting at the end of the month?<br>

Kristian

I am not aware of any CAACs for the Tollington Park and Stroud Green Conservation Areas

gardener-joe

...

Thomas

Slightly unrelated, but its appears that Islington and Hackney Councils did put in a joint bid for funding for Finsbury Park Town Centre from the Outer London Fund. Looks like the bid is for public realm improvements including a shop front improvements scheme, but have no further detail on specific projects (or on how much they have bid for). <div><br></div><div>Unfortunately, however, as Haringey are not involved in the bid, I would assume that any spending would be focused at the Seven Sisters Road side of the tracks rather than Stroud Green side....</div><div><br></div><div>Successful bids to be announced in the next couple of weeks. </div><div><br></div><div>The three councils also seem to be working towards a 'Finsbury Park Accord' which I assume would be a framework / strategy for improved joint working in the area in the future.</div>

Arkady

Green Lanes has just won funding to achieve the kind of shop-front improvements that I have been arguing for here: http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topic/show?id=844301:Topic:334182&amp;xgs=1&amp;xg_source=msg_share_topic&lt;br&gt;

Mirandola

I saw. I wonder who organised it over there?

Arkady

Sounds like it was primarily led by the traders association.<br>

Arkady

Has anyone heard of ''Charteris Neighbourhood Tenants’ Association'?

Reg

The Finsbury Park regeneration conference is on - afternoon of 28th Jan. Limited places buts its free and there is lunch provided...<div><br><div><a href="http://finfuture.btck.co.uk/UpComingEvents">http://finfuture.btck.co.uk/UpComingEvents</a> </div><div><br></div><div>Looks like all the local MPs, key elected members and officers will be there so a good place to nobble a few about localism etc.</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div>

Arkady

Much obliged Reg, I've reserved a place.<br>

Gregspar

The Harringay movement was in the main thanks to Rob Chau, who is also one of the main men behind the Harringay Food Festival. Green Lanes traders are very well organised, and do carry an awful lot of weight with the council.

gardener-joe

...

Mirandola

There's £571k going to Hornsey Road too. The (very little) I've found out about that is at the usual place: <a href="http://www.thehornseyroad.blogspot.com/">http://www.thehornseyroad.blogspot.com/</a>;

marko

Are you thinking of Charteris Neighbourhood Tenants' Co-operative?<div><br></div><div>If so, it is a co-operative, whose members are local-authority tenants in properties in Charteris and Moray Road. Its purpose was - and still is - to provide local property management of the properties.  In practice, they have responsibility for the inside whilst HfI takes care of the fabric of the buildings.</div><div><br></div><div>At one point, all of the properties in both streets were owned by LBI; they had bought them from dereliction and their original plan was to demolish them and develop an estate.  After a public outcry, they instead refurbished the properties and in many cases converted them into flats.  </div><div><br></div><div>There was a pretty strong community built up around the co-op at one point, but it seems very much diminished these days.  Probably the beginning of the decline was the Right To Buy, when about 50% of members did just that.  As I understand it, there was debate at the time as to whether those that had should remain members or not, although as lease-holders they were still tenants and they were allowed to remain members. </div><div>    </div><div>In the period that I was a member (as a leaseholder), I got the impression there was still a simmering resentment in some quarters - possibly all the more so as the former members who had exercised the RTB had cashed in big-time when they moved on and second and third generations of lease-holders had bought into the area, generally unaware of, and uninterested in the co-op. </div><div><br></div><div>The next blow was LBI's policy about 5 years ago of offloading freeholds where all flats in a property were privately owned.  Everyone with any sense who was eligible, did so. This deprived the co-op of the income from management charges paid by lease-holders.    These were between £150-£300 per flat, seemingly for not very much. </div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

Julie Shrive

<div><br></div><div><br></div>SENT TO ENGLISH HERITAGE <div><br></div><div>Will the admin person forward to those who can resolve or have they been directed not to? </div><div><br></div><div>If Stroud Green, London N19 ,at risk is it at risk from LA Islington  as they are selling to developers to demolish Deco libraries etc . What is going on? They are also allowing printing firms to cold call & flood area with advertising that goes straight in recycling box.Should they not be setting a good example . Can we fine them?</div>

andy

<div>Why did you write to English Heritage about printing firms? And why do you think that English Heritage should fine people? They aren't traffic wardens, they look after old buildings.</div><div><br></div>I bet you get a lot of letters saying "Thank you for writing, we have noted your concerns."<div><br></div><div>This really means "I have no idea how to address these three entirely unrelated issues you have written to me about, none of which are my job".</div>

ADGS

I am also intrigued as to what Deco libraries Islington could sell to developers. Arthur Simpson had its uses, but Deco it was not. N4, ditto. So it would seem that even where Julie has the right target organisation, she's pointing at the wrong culprit.<br>

Julie Shrive

Where do I mention fine ?I wasn't aware they fined . Get your facts straight. Are not the LA in charge of our money & supposed to be acting in our interest .Obviously full of people like this Andy who is particularly arrogant & obnoxious.Is he in charge?  I am dyspraxic at MA level. I happen to appreciate architecture and our heritage which makes a place beautiful . Wasn't the discussion about beautification .Why were residents not informed it was a Conservation area & belonged to Haringey as my Islington  PCT Surgery there.   What is the problem here  eveyone has first name I have both . Where was he at regeneration meeting today where the group on regeneration were taken over by the  Green lobby protecting their interest ? As for David Lammy & Camden councillors[ were they invited]  . They weren't seen for dust  & meeting didn't realise N19 is bottom of Crouch Hill when mostly  in Camden. 

Julie Shrive

<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco">This proves something underhand has gone on as what  used to be Islington is now Haringay  I went there as my LA . Research has found   Arthur Simpson had been a famous Arts & Crafts Cabinet maker .The  Arts & Crafts Movement proceeded Art deco movement in Arts & architecture  .  In the 1930 many people who made money bequeathed it to the poorer areas to raise educational ability & help people out of the poverty trap  . This is also related to swimming pools,community centres & tube stations.</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco"><br></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco; min-height: 14.0px">FROM GOOGLE </p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco">Introduction</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 10.0px Monaco">On 7th March, 2002, the Education and Libraries Committee of the London Borough of Islington made a decision to close the Arthur Simpson Library (ASL). This decision was subsequently ratified in a full Council meeting. In July the Campaign to Save the Arthur Simpson Library (Campaign) began proceedings to take the Council before a judicial review over its failure to consult the public. The response of the Council was to claim that no final decision to close the Arthur Simpson Library had been taken and that a consultation exercise would begin. A final decision would be taken by the Council¹s Executive Committee on 28 November. This document is the Campaign's submission to that exercise.</p> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">

Reg

Julie, I disagree that it was taken over by the Green lobby today. I felt that everyone had a good chance to make suggestions. If anything, it became a little Blackstock Road centric but I think this is natural as the issues there are most acute locally. Lots of discussion about how to reach out to the marginalised Algerians who, as we heard from the chair of the Blackstock Road Traders Assoc, are not themselves representative of the Algerian community there. Sounds like the traders are really working to try and make the environment more appealing to a wider section of the local community.<div><br></div><div>Your singular comment, if I recall correctly, was that LB Camden was not represented at the meeting and this was some kind of travesty. Camden was not invited as they have *no* interest in Finsbury Park. Zero. Hackney on the other hand were invited and the elected representatives were noticeably absent whereas Islington and Haringey put on a good show.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Arkady

Ah, turns out I met Julie today.<br><br>Julie, your comment confused the hell out of everyone.  You mentioned to me that you live on a particular road just off Crouch Hill.  That road is in Islington, in Tollington ward to be precise.  It is near the border with Haringey.  It nowhere is near the border with Camden.  No part of Camden is anywhere near Finsbury Park.<br><br>I heard you tell Councillor Wilson that you were leaving in protest due to the lack of Camden councillors present.  You may now realise what an odd thing that was to do.<br><br>Incidentally neither your road nor the library that you mention are in a conservation area.<br>