Road closures in Corbyn St/ Thorpedale Rd - does everyone else know about this ...?

conformable_kate

I know this is a bit marginal to Stroud Green proper (not to reopen that debate), but people on this site might be interested to hear that Islington council is proposing to close Corbyn St and Thorpedale Rd to traffic at the junction with Hornsey Rd. Personally I would find this very inconvenient, as well as unnecessary - I think they're pretty calm streets and I've lived here since 1996. But I'm also a bit shocked that I found out about it by chance, from a neighbour who had had a leaflet. I don't know why I didn't! There are also various proposals relating to further traffic calming measures in Tollington Park - I'm less exercised by those though I would have thought if traffic there gets much calmer it will be stationery for 24 hours a day ... <div><br></div><div>Is this in fact about cutting off Hornsey Rd and abandoning it to its fate? Hmm. Mirandola?</div><div><br></div><div>There's a map and a survey here: <a href="https://dlwebmail.uel.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=5mck7G5ru0OeuSiyPUn99nPxciIiZtAIqepJ7lskoQyWR2FxNMheY4o9kvf6uy98kqdi7e8HZB8.&amp;URL=http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Tollingtonpark" target="_blank" style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 16px;">http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Tollingtonpark</a>.</div>;

kittygal

Yes I got the same leaflet but as I live on Tollington I was in favour of the measures. You chose to live there but the traffic noise is grim sometimes! Not sure how effective it will be, can't see much they can do.

andy

<div>If you live inside the box marked by Hanley, Tollington, Hornsey and Stroud Green Road, Islington seem keen to make "getting to your house" a puzzling labyrinth.</div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div>If you live on Evershot, then pretty much the only way onto your road will be via Hanley Road. This is faintly ridiculous if you imagine a journey from, say Sainsburys in Green Lanes.</span><br><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I have written to the council about this,</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> asking why they were doing it and what it would cost. Their response was pretty clear that they want to do this and they won't reveal the cost: </span></div><div><div><i><br></i></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><i><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">As officers, we have been aware of the high levels of traffic using Tollington</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> Park and the possible safety implications given the high level of educational establishments and pedestrian movements on</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> the road. </span></i><i style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">This scheme is designed to improve safety and reduce traffic in</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> the area, which we hope will be beneficial for local residents.</span></i><div><i><br style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></i></div><div><i><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I am not in</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> a position to give a cost for the scheme at this stage, as it is very dependent on</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> the consultation process as to what if anything we implement.</span></i></div></blockquote><div style="font-style: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div style="font-style: normal;">Islington have a pretty terrible record of not listening to local consultations, or hearing what they want to hear and then doing it anyway, so I'm pretty pessimistic but will fill out the form saying I don't want it. </div></div><div style="font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-style: normal;">I would encourage everyone to do the same.</div>

andy

Here are the proposals and here is the link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Tollingtonpark I think it's a terrible idea, doing something for the sake of doing something. <img width="600" src="http://secure.surveymonkey.com/_resources/24837/42444837/879686b8-1ddc-4b7d-80ec-95e8c01836ac.jpg">

ChangN4N6

Thank you. You are right about the council not listening or faking consultations. My father in law told me bout the cynical way they closed a library and built flats near the Dairy somewhere. You would think FOI request would get the cost out of them. Planning dept also deaf, slow and totally in pocket of developers and landlords . This is according to him. Chang

ChangN4N6

Also looking st map I can't see problems in evershot or Hanley . Just passes pressure to mariot and vagina roads? Waste of money . Chang

Beek

There was a proposal to move the 210 bus stop further down Hanley Road, away from SGR at the end of last year. The A5 photocopied note was popped through just before Christmas and consultation closed on something like 6 Jan. We were very much against it as the proposed location for the bus stop would have meant less visibility for cars emerging from Evershot onto Hanley. There are frequent accidents at this junction. Their maps were woefully out of date, still showing Arthur Simpson lib, not showing the left turn only junctions etc etc. I phoned up to get as much info as poss. The person in charge had not been on a site visit. The whole scheme was triggered by TFL data which showed 'an accident' had occurred by the bus stop. No info could be given to us regards on severity of 'accident' or what had happened. Which side of road? Pedestrian? Bike? Lorry? So goodness knows how they were going to solve it if they didn't have an idea of what the problem was! It was rejected after consultation as it was not wanted by local residents. I was amazed! They did listen on that occasion.

conformable_kate

well, nice to think that they do listen sometimes.<div><br></div><div>@kittygal - yes, sympathy if you live on Tollington, it's a nice road but awful traffic - I would probably be in favour of anything that could persuade lorries not to take the route! But the leaflets (neighbour has now passed me copies) talk about 'the Tollington area' as if the problems were identical for every road between Tollington and Hanley.</div><div><br></div><div>And as for the planning idiocy that allowed for the Tesco in Hornsey Rd at the Tollington dogleg - well, that now stitches up Hornsey Rd several times a day with delivery lorries - and they have the nerve to talk about traffic management.</div>

ChangN4N6

Agree. This is evil and MUST be stopped. No reason , 2 much money and bad for everyone . Chang

conformable_kate

Hm, I would keep 'evil' for graver issues! Exasperating, officious, unhelpful ...

boxrunner

I've replied, saying that as a resident of Evershot Road I don't think it's helpful.  As @andy says, coming down from Sainsbury's in Green Lanes would mean you have to take a circuitous route, plus cutting-off access to both Thorpedale and Corbyn from Honsey Road make entrance into this grid of streets from the south a silly maze, pushing taffic onto an already congested Tollington Park, or else up to Hanley Road (which is what they want).<br>

Four Eyes

This is a ridiculous suggestion. 'Deter traffic using Tollington Park as a through route'?? Of course it's a 'through route', a very important through route as it happens! (especially if you happen to live on it)! How else do you get from Hornsey Road to SGR?<br><br>The 2 proposed 'road narrowing' sections on Tollington Park are equally as ridiculous. The stretch of TP by Charteris Road is too narrow as it is. Vehicles already have difficulty passing there when there are parked cars on either side.<br><br>All this will do is grind the road to a standstill, which it already is because of that stupid hole out Nando's (that's been there for how long now)? But that's another subject...<br><br><br><br>

andy

@boxrunner @dion and others. Fancy an Evershot Road petition?

boxrunner

@andy, go on then (I'm often up for a petition <br>

ChangN4N6

Silly maze is right. They should have a public meeting. Chang

conformable_kate

we've also thought (ie me and a neighbour) about a Corbyn St/ Thorpedale petition - maybe we should do it collectively?

Colette

I agree, the proposals are daft, and I've said as much in my response to Islington. I'd be happy to sign a petition (we're on Corbyn).

andy

OK, I'm about to go away, but will send a note round about how we do this.

mikep

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">In principle I have no problem at all with them enacting road closures to make residential streets unattractive to people rat-running in their cars. </font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">However, I've voted no to the scheme in it's current format, as it makes Marriott Road & Almington Street into the primary conduits for traffic trying to avoid SGR or cut across onto Hornsey Road up towards Elthorne Park.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">Fundamentally, they need to engage in face to face consultation. We need them to talk to us, not hide behind a web survey. </div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">I've taken the liberty of setting up an online petition that you can sign here if you wish. </div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">I hope that's not too forward of me, but if we don't do something time will slip by. If you sign it, Richard Watts (Labour councillor for Tollington Ward) will receive a copy of your message via email.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/islington-borough-council-conduct-full-consultation-over-the-proposed-tollington-road-changes</font></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div>

Mirandola

Hmm. Let's play the 'suppose you were the council' game. Tollington Park has a nursery, a school (two if you count Poole's Park) two churches and a park (Wray Crescent). It also has pretty speedy traffic. Supposing you wanted to slow down the traffic, what would you do? For what it's worth, I don't know the answer.

Papa

I agree this is stupid. It manages to tick the boxes of both being badly planned and dangerous.<br><br>Here are my objections:<br><br>1) The council has used language that could prejudice the survey in its note, as it says that Thorpedale and Corbyn are being used as 'rat runs', this is emotive and more importantly not actually true. A rat run is understood to be a road being heavily used by drivers as a cut through, the key element that makes it stand out from a road just being normally used is that the use is very heavy and disproportionate. This is not true of either Thorpedale or Corbyn. <br><br>I have lived in the area for eight years and always thought of them as very quiet roads, I have recently been conducting my own straw poll to see if I am right or misjudging things. I cycle along there most days in the rush hour, a time when Hornsey Road is consistently busy, and have been counting the number of cars driving as I progress along. The range has mainly been 0 to 3. Normally at any given time it is one car, it has very rarely ever been more than three and when it has more often than not that has been because of cars that were parked on or are being driven to those actual roads. That's not a rat run.<br><br>They may get more heavily used at times when the Hornsey Road is extremely busy but that makes them a valueable escape valve, not a rat run. This is not a particularly scientific method but appears to be more data than the council has bothered to put out<br><br>2) The lack of consideration of the negative impact in making neighbouring roads busier and more dangerous. Thorpedale and Corbyn are roads characterised by householders with cars - you can see them all parked there. Those cars have to get in or out. Closing the ends of Corbyn and Thorpedale at Hornsey Road will push all that traffic onto the residents of Hanley Road, Tollington Park, Almington St, Evershot Street and Marriot Road. Why should the residents of those roads (vested interest here I am one) have to deal with the extra volume of traffic?<br><br>On Tollington and Hanley that is also extra traffic past a school, nurseries and childminders.<br><br>3) Blocking people from exiting and entering at various points increases traffic congestion outside the rectangle, cause more traffic driving the length of the roads from residents trying to get in or out and extra traffic from those who do not know the area getting stuck within the maze.<br><br>4) Tollington Park is a throughfare (and has been for 200 years at least). When traffic is moving freely the road is fine and you barely notice, when traffic is blocked it becomes unpleasant. The council is deliberately trying to block the free movement of traffic, that is plain daft and even more so when you consider where it is trying to do so, right by the busy Stroud Green Road crossroads.<br><br>5) This is not being properly consulted on. I have just been to the Islington Council website to try and find it and cannot find it anywhere.<br><br>I am sending these objections to the council and to the Tollington Ward councillors, any of them who end up reading this, perhaps you would care to reply.<br>

miss annie

I'm not a driver and don't live in a road that is ever going to be affected by this, but why is it wrong to try to spread some of the traffic on to Hanley Rd? It's one of the least busy 'cut throughs' from Hornsey Rd to SGR in the area.

kittygal

As a resident of many years in the area I can confirm Thorpedale & Corbyn are not busy roads & was surprised to see them referred to as rat runs. I didn't understand how restricting access to these from Hornsey was going to help 'calm' the traffic on Tollington Park or spread traffic to other routes. As commented above I can only see this shifting more traffic onto Tollington Park. Additionaly on miss annie's point I have lived on both Hanley Road & Tollington Park & I know which is the more congested. 

andy

@missannie - it's not "spreading". It means if you live inside that box, you can only get into it by driving in a massive circle on already congested roads. Rather than just turning into your road.

graeme

Why is '<i>won't somebody think of the children</i>' the default reason when authorities try to ram through badly considered decisions?  Aren't traffic lights, driving tests, and the Green Cross Code ample?  <br>

Papa

Miss Annie, this forces all the cars going to and leaving Thorpedale / Corbyn to use Hanley Road or Tollington Park.<br><br>That's not spreading it, that is funnelling extra cars that currently don't need to use them onto the adjacent roads that are already much busier than the two in question.<br><br>Ultimately, the whole flawed plan involves calming some already calm roads by making some busier ones busier.<br><br>Kittygal, which one do you think is more congested.<br><br>I'd say there's actually more traffic on Hanley than Tollington, but Tollington feels busier and is more congested because it is narrow and you get regular blockages, which makes the plan for it even barmier.<br><br><br>

Four Eyes

@mirandola whenever I go down Tollington Park (every day) I never encounter speedy traffic. The frequency of the current speed bumps, the narrowness of the road, traffic lights and pedestrian crossing mean the 20mph speed limit is pretty much enforced, which is pretty unique for Islington, the (unenforced) 20mph borough.<br>

ChangN4N6

@mirandola Marriott rd has a school entrance with 200 kids every day, not supervised like the little snots going to nursery in Tollington. So why are the Tolington ones more important to protect from boy racers? @mikep good man. Pls ppl sign this petition. All: thorp and corbyn are NOT rat runs and cll shd not call them it in a consultation doc. Chang

Brodiej

<P>I will never be able to take the council seriously on their traffic calming measures when within 20ft of this "project", there is twice daily carnage on Hornsey Road created by lorries parked up unloading for the Tescos. Traffic gets massively backed up, its more dangerous than it was before, local residents get the din of the cages rattling past their house etc. Given that you have to jump through several hoops to get the most minor alteration made to your house via the planning department, i can only think that the council were made an offer they couldn't refuse by Tescos.</P> <P>Unconnected to this, but kind of linked, there's a man who stands outside the Holloway Road Sainsburys with a placard protesting about how the council gave Sainsburys permission to put a large industrial fan outside his flat (he lives above the store) and now he can't 1.) sleep 2.) sell. He's been completely done over by the council. How desperate must you be to dedicate your weekends to standing there with a placard. I really feel for him.</P> <P>Best traffic calming measure they could make locally would be to put a speed camera on Hanley Road. I think most people do 30-40 and ive seen some do 60-70 and take off over the zebra crossing.</P>

ChangN4N6

I wonder if the holloway rd man in in Islingtön . Sainsburys should be ashamed and help him out. Chang

Reg

Voted against this. It will make the area so so tedious for residents and visitors. Can you imagine trying to talk people in when giving directions??<div><br></div><div>Also, by making Tollington more difficult to navigate, is the alternative (Seven Sisters?) only so marginally less appealing that you would change direction? Personally, I don't think so. The result would just be lots of queueing at traffic lights and priority passing places.</div><div><br></div><div>People, if you want to get rid of all the cars and pretend you live in a 1950s village move the hell out of Holloway/Finsbury Park and let the rest of us get on with living in a city.</div>