Say 'No' to knocking down Rowan's

miss annie

So a plaza with a view of flats, the Arsenal shop and Seven Sister's Road. Not exactly the kind of glorious vista I'd enjoy lingering to look at, but each to their own. I'm sure some folk love a nice urban view. When John Hinshelwood took us on our local history walk I'm sure he mentioned Rowan's building being a music hall or cinema in the past, it certainly looks like it was. Am I wrong?

Arkady

It's been both, if memory serves. I think The Beatles had their first London gig there

Arkady

http://stroudgreencaac.wordpress.com

miss annie

Venues for Beatles gigs are a bit like 'Queen Elizabeth the First slept here' claims.

Thomas

I'm sure I read it was the first cinma in the UK to give a demonstration of sound. Can't seem to find that reference now though.<div><br></div><div>Brief history of the buildings here:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/15136/">http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/15136/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Some old pics here:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/110611517/in/photostream/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/110611517/in/photostream/</a></div>;

miss annie

Yes, John told us that too!

ChangN4N6

Grame - good point well made!! Arkady - stop lecturing all the time . Lucyabcde - get a better name luv. Ditto. Chang.

JoeV

@Arkady -- I realise architectural renderings take some licence but if opening up a grand new entrance and vista into the park is one of the ways this plan will be sold, and the drawings show a grand new vista on a plot of privately owned land that is earmarked to be developed it's a bit misleading, no?<div><div><br></div></div>

Arkady

The 'licence' in this case is that the map (and maybe the diagram, I can't recall) implies that a small piece of the park alongside the existing bridge would be incorporated into the development.  LB Haringey have confirmed that this was not intentional.  The general scheme - i.e. new commercial & residential development divided by a new public entrance to the park, stands.  As is so often the case, an indicative conceptual sketch is provoking more panic than it probably needs to.<div><br></div><div>If it were me, I'd be focusing on the fact that the drawing indicates a 7-story building, whereas rumour has it that Haringey may be considering up to 15-stories...</div>

Ali

is this not the place (wheen it wasa theatre that the Beatle played their first concert in London

andy

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2" style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_Beatles'_live_performances</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">http://www.beatlesbible.com/1961/12/10/live-blue-gardenia-club-london/</font></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Not according to this</font></div></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2" style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">They did play the Astoria (</font><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2" style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">http://www.beatlesbible.com/1963/12/24/the-beatles-christmas-show/), which became the Rainbow Theatre, which is now the big UKCG church the other side of the station. Lots of famous bands played there (</font><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Theatre)</font></div>

Papa

I noticed that seven-storey building slap bang on the park. Just what we need - and now it may even be 15.<br><br>Still whichever they choose it will be plenty of flats to market at ludicrous prices to Chinese investors. <br><br>Perhaps they could even make it look nothing like the initial sketch and more like one of the blocks that keep going up that will date in a matter of years. Maybe flat-fronted with some of those gloomy grey metal windows.<br><br>That would be nice. We need some more of those.<br><br>My problem with the sketch is not the park encroachment but the fact that it looks like every other sketch and the end result will never look anything like it.<br><br>Indicative, conceptual sketches should be banned. They cause more bad planning than almost anything else. Planners, architects etc should be made to make stuff look exactly how it will in real life. That would make them put a bit more thought into things.<br><br>

Arkady

Mmmm.  The sketch is *meant* to be indicative though, and says so.  It's a place-shaping exercise in a consultation, not a planning application.  It strikes me that the problem is people misinterpreting what the sketch is for - and for no good reason - rather than the sketch itself.<div style="font-style: normal;"><br></div><div>Even in planning applications it's often not possible to give an exact representation, as the details of cladding <i>etc</i>. are often conditional on later Council approval.</div>

JoeV

Arkady, I understand what the sketches are for. On the John Jones thread, the architectural sketches of the new buildings show well lit, wide and sweeping footpaths and roads, which obviously don't exist. But the depiction of the JJ building now going up and the Vista block of flats looks fairly representative (at least to me). <div><br></div><div>I don't see how the Rowan's site can accommodate a block of flats AND a wide access point and vista into the park. There's doesn't seem to be space to do both. </div><div><br></div><div>Granted maybe I don't understand the purpose of the Finsbury Park Regeneration Plan document prepared the Council but I think it should reflect what actually can be built. Otherwise it's just promoting a fantasy vision.</div><div><br></div>

ChangN4N6

Totally right. Arkady is talking through his arkady. We really need some realism here. Don't be fooled by clever expensive drawings - look at Vista building. Will anyone be proud of that in 10 months let alone 10 years? Grotty politics and should be stopped Chang.

Arkady

@JoeV: I take your point about that sort of glossing.<br><br>For those who haven’t seen the proposals, they can be found <a href="http://www.islington.gov.uk/publicrecords/library/Planning-and-building-control/Publicity/Public-consultation/2013-2014/(2013-06-28)-Finsbury-Park-Town-Centre-draft-SPD.pdf">here</a>.<br><br>The sketch in question can be seen on page 35, and shows quite clearly how a development with a new access point could work.<br><br>Now I think about it, the ‘boundary’ controversy was because the outline border of the supplementary planning scheme (e.g. as shown on page 22) incorporates bits of metropolitan open land and some people jumped to the wrong conclusion. The sketch on page 35 does not, on inspection, show anything built on said open land (indeed there would be more open space than there is now, albeit not officially designated as such). Other than the question of the bus station, I don’t see anything about the indicative sketch that is less than feasible, let alone fantasy or impossible. It may be that you have underestimated the size of the development site, which does include properties that neighbour Rowans.  <div><br></div><div>As ever, I’m open to correction.<br></div>

yagamuffin

Wasn't it the Lidl building that used to be a cinema, or were there two?<div><br></div><div>Having read Thomas's link I have answered my own question!</div>

Toddlesocks

Never been inside Rowans, not likely to in future. I like the outside facade, would be great if it became arts, crafts open studios / units where local artists/ crafters could make / sell. If it is already chopped up inside seems ideal ! Plenty of creative 's in the area with no where for them, Hackney and Crouch End benefiting, shame !

Arkady

Ah, here you go:<div><br></div><div><img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbw2h9nIIAA2g1Z.jpg"></div>

Arkady

Oh, re the Beatles connection (third London gig, it seems): <div><a href="http://www.beatlesource.com/savage/1963/63.04.24 finsbury/63.04.24finsbury.html">http://www.beatlesource.com/savage/1963/63.04.24 finsbury/63.04.24finsbury.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;

NorthNineteen

There's plenty of creatives plying their trade in Finsbury Park!<br>

kreuzkav

<div>And 16 festive shows:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.beatlesbible.com/1963/12/24/the-beatles-christmas-show/">http://www.beatlesbible.com/1963/12/24/the-beatles-christmas-show/</a></div>;

miss annie

Yes, there are plenty of creatives here! Crouch End Creatives group are always moaning on about not having any studios in Crouch End actually. Kate Jones was on about giving space to artists, try getting in touch with her to ask for studio space @Toddlesocks. Our W.I. had our Christmas/Birthday do at Rowan's last year. Thoroughly enjoyed by all.

krappyrubsnif

God, the very idea of knocking down Rowans and replacing it with a square five- storey box makes me shudder. Rowans provides a bit of character and fun to the streetscape and should be valued. It makes me smile sometimes when I walk past or wait there for the bus. Does everything have to be reduced to functional rectangular concrete?

[Deleted User]

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ChangN4N6

Spill the beans Carol , you old wise salty dog. This is a valued area and we need to know. Chang

Sutent

Come on Cara tell us?

Arkady

Yeah don't tease us like that.

miss annie

Suggest going to have a chat with the flower shop/cab office chap. He owns the block.

miss annie

It will surprise no-one to learn that I think the Rowan's proposal above looks horrible. Like a holiday complex in the ropier bits of Spain in the 80's. As soon as I see a brightly coloured balcony or canopy I'm suspicious. Like those horrible New River Village flats, not only do they look horrible but they are unpleasant to live in too.