Zebra crossing Florence/Tollington

the northern heights

Please can local Haringey and Islington councillors let us know on here that they will contact Transport For London to ask TFL to change the phasing of the traffic lights at the junction of Stroud Green Rd and Tollington Park; to reduce the chance of a road traffic accident happening at this junction where drivers regularly jump red lights;if this would be a good idea for safety? It is good that The Metropolitan Police have done work to crack down on drivers breaking the law at the crossing that Dion writes about in Upper Tollington if they have done this. But did the police stop any cars going through red lights at the junction of Stroud Green Rd and Tollington Park? Are car drivers getting frustrated on their way to work at the traffic lights at the junction of Stroud Green and Tollington Park because the lights are phased wrongly? If not then why are cars clearly jumping red lights at this junction? Why is this junction so bad for this? Is it just a case of a build up of traffic at this junction is causing drivers to break the law due to anger at being held up in a traffic jam? Maybe drivers jump red lights all over London but in my view this junction is really bad for red light jumpers If TFL respond to councillors maybe councillors could post their reply here. Because if I had kids I would fear for their lives at this place. If you walk along Upper Tollington to the junction of Stroud Green Rd and Tollington Park and press the button the light at waist height does not come on indicating that the green man button has been pressed so pedestrians can cross this is roughly opposite cafe with seats out on pavement

ADGS

Drivers - not all drivers, but a lot - do jump red lights all over London, because like a similar proportion of non-drivers, they are selfish, solipsistic arseholes with a massive and unjustified sense of entitlement. It has nothing to do with phasing, it's to do with the same basic lack of consideration which explains litter dropped on the street within sight of a bin, people bellowing their end of a hands-free mobile 'phone conversation, or dawdling down the station tunnel two abreast.

ShaunG

The last one being the worst. What are our councillors going to do about that?

miss annie

And spitting on the pavement! Or anywhere in public. Just too disgusting.

ActionVerb

The problem with the SGR/Upper Tollington traffic lights is that there's always a lot of traffic going straight across Upper Tollington, cutting SGR. So, as I often have, been sitting on the western side of Upper T wanting to turn right onto SGR to go towards FP station, you only get a chance to start moving when the lights go amber and the traffic heading across Upper T in the opposite direction stops. So best case scenario is that you make it during the amber stage, worst case is you abandon your plans to turn right and carry on across Upper T and then get wherever you want round the back of FP and Green Lanes.

Arkady

<wrong thread>

the northern heights

Sorry to hear you are on the wrong thread Arkady how careless of u. Sgnt Bob Stevenson from Stroud Green Safer Neighbourhoods Team Police wrote:" we intend to monitor this crossing and carry out similar visits over the next few weeks and issue further fixed penalty notices." Thank you very much. Does this mean only the crossing Dion refers to or the SG Rd/Tollington Park junction as well? Maybe old bill won't tell us as they do like to be a little bit secretive for obvious reasons n that. Please could I ask if SG SNT could post some comments on here in future to let us know the results of their "similar visits" in future? It is up to relevant authorities to decide if the phasing of the Tollington Park / SG Rd traffic lights are phased correctly? What makes the people on this thread so sure of themselves that phasing of the traffic lights does not encourage people to jump red lights? Surely if the lights are phased wrongly more people will jump the lights due to being held up in raspberry jams,traffic jams? Some ignroant twits will always jump lights but effective phasing must have something to do with moderating behaviour of some drivers?

ADGS

I have almost never seen lengthy jams in either direction on (Upper) Tollington Park, and when I have, it's normally because some moron on SGR has jumped the lights and ended up blocking the junction. It is not that people on (Upper) Tollington don't want to get caught in a *jam*, it's that they don't feel they should have to *queue*.

Slabber

We should get one of those diagonal crossings like at Oxford Circus. And they should turn the Hanley Road junction into a roundabout with zebra crossings.

ShaunG

The power of sg.org. Just received a Lib Dem election leaflet for the council elections, and one of the three promises made (endearingly unambitious - one of them is to make the stationers park play fort "even better than it is"), is to slow down traffic on UTP and do something to make the crossing safer.

[Deleted User]

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ADGS

The Stationers Park play fort is pretty damn awesome, so I would consider any effort to improve it to be ambition verging on folly.

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ADGS

Some major road traffic badness going down an hour or so ago at the SGR/Tollington crossroads; three fire engines, a couple of ambulances and a ton of cops. I didn't see what exactly had happened but the wreckage mainly seemed to be in front of Nando's. Would be interested to know whether whatever happened, happened because of the usual light-jumping, which certainly doesn't seem to have been helped by the temporary lights currently on the crossing (with no indication of any pedestrian phase).

dion

I saw a policeman/community support officer standing behind the the phone box the other morning who looked to be monitoring the crossing so I gave him a wave. Otherwise, the LibDem leaflet that popped through my door the other day said that one of their stated aims if elected as councillors for SG Ward would be to do something about the crossing. So I suppose that is good news, if anyone votes for them and they get in that is.

dion

And someone, a minicab, had the temerity to hoot at me to warn me not to cross in front of him yesterday as he was going too quickly and couldn't be bothered to stop. I put my fingers up at his rapidly disappearing rear and got some more hoots for that. I figured that if he wasn't going to stop for me to cross, he wouldn't stop to try and beat me up for swearing at him!

Arkady

Is the Lib Dem pledge to remedy the Tollington crossing problem a sign of the power of StoudGreen.org to influence policy? Discuss

dion

Clearly Yes

Ian

Clearly no. If we were that influential the councillors and council officers would have realised it was a problem and immediately done something about it. Rather than wait and use it as an election ploy to promise something non specific in the future.

dion

Ah, like the UK budget deficit

dorothy

Since reading about it on here, I've become more aware of that crossing. I tend to use it every day, or cross on my bike out of Florence Road there. I've got more angry about it, and now I'll let two cars go by, but that's my limit and I'll just walk out after that. I've had a few close shaves, and wondered about the injury I would incur. I think it would be a broken pelvis. If the Lib Dems get in, I hope they hurry up about dealing with it.

Donna

Crossing was really bad tonight. Two cars crossed at top speed despite clearly seeing me waiting to cross. then when I actually started to cross, another car and a motorbike went over the crossing on the other side, forcing me to stop in the middle of the road! I was so lame, all I did was shout 'Hello!' at the motorcyclist, who then waved at me. Grrr

dion

This is a response from the council There has been 1 recorded personal injury accident at the junction of Upper Tollington Park with Florence Road and Woodstock Road in the past 3 years. This accident involved a vehicle colliding with the rear of a motorcycle. The causal factors attributed by the Police were ‘Following too close’ and ‘Failed to look properly’. There are no recorded accidents involving pedestrians or excessive speed at this location. The cost to upgrade the existing zebra crossing to a signal controlled crossing would need to take into consideration the additional cost of signalising the entire junction, as its close proximity to the junction does not lend itself to being converted into a stand alone puffin crossing. Signalising the entire junction would be beneficial to pedestrians crossing the side roads however the cost to provide such a solution would be in the region of £75,000.

dion

i reckon a little island would be a bit more cost effective and a little less crazy than 'signalising the entire junction' this is from this link <http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/local_campaigning/online_guides/slowing_traffic/get_busy/traffic_calming_measures#zebra>; Traffic island and pedestrian refuge A traffic island is usually situated in the centre of a road to help reduce vehicle speeds and to prevent over-taking. If it includes a gap in the middle of the island it is called a refuge, allowing people to cross half the road at a time Cost: £4,000 Pros: Slows cars down. Prevents over-taking. Can improve road safety. Makes it easier for people to cross the road safely Cons: Can cause problems for cyclists and wide vehicles. Can be dangerous for cyclists and motorists if cars try to overtake them within the gap. Can reduce on-street parking. May be considered visually intrusive. Not suitable for large groups of pedestrians. May cause access problems for residents who have driveway next to the traffic island

krappyrubsnif

I don't know why, but this crossing has bad karma.

I have always lived in fear of it ever since a nasty scrape on - I happen to remember the date - the first day of the new millennium (1/1/2000). It was morning, not much traffic about. I was crossing with young child in tow when a white van appeared at speed on Tollington. When he saw me on the crossing the driver actually put his foot down and sped up, tore down on us and missed us by a hair's breadth. He shouted, I shouted, he was laughing his head off. I think he was pissed from the night before.

Complete psycho, I hope he is well and very painfully dead by now against a brick wall but I hope he hasn't taken anyone else with him.

ADGS

The suggestions of replacing it with a controlled crossing miss the point; drivers would just ignore amber and sometimes red as they do at the next pelican down, on the SGR crossroad. What is needed on both is more enforcement - ideally with Stingers.

dion

ADGS - I disagree. People don't jump the pedestrian crossing at Endymion bridge to Finsbury park. The SGR and fiveways are normal crossroads where light jumping is more prevalent. Also, I am not going to be crossing at lights on the amber, but only on the red, and after cars have stopped. The problem at the zebra is that they don't want to stop.

sg_mike

There's a couple of problems with the crossing, the first is that when you're coming from the SGR direction you can't see if someone wants to cross until pretty late because of the parked cars and the bend in the road. From the other direction it's just maniac drivers who've found probably the only clear bit of road to build up speed in the area.

Best solution would be to put in a "table" crossing, i.e. make a big hump underneath the crossing that everyone has to slow down for anyway. A bit like the one on Ferme Park Road near Weston Park. Would cost about £5k to £10k.

dion

sgmike - yes, I agree - it is hard to see people waiting from both sides until it is too late. On Tollington in Islington next to the primary school they have managed to put in a raised traffic light crossing and that is on a bit of road which is calmed completely anyway. I don't see why we can't have a raised traffic light crossing.

krappyrubsnif

That whole stretch of road between Stroud Green Road traffic light intersection and the bottom of Lancaster Road should be calmed. There are two or three extremely dangerous intersections. People and children are always on their way to and from school and the park and constantly trying to cross, cyclists and walkers frequently dodging across at Victoria Road to take the short cut down Oxford Road. If I remember there WAS recently a fatality on this stretch when a young woman crossing at night was cut down by a fast motor bike just near Victoria Terrace. This really is a death trap.

I think it would be reasonable to ask for road narrowing or chicanes, pillows, refuges and pavement extensions to make it easier for pedestrians, along this whole stretch, just like they have on the Islington stretch of Tollington.

Thus road is in Haringey I believe - could that be anything to do with it. Wake up Haringey!

We got the traffic lights at Nando. It took a public meeting and a year's campaigning. It worked. Let's go for it!