Riots

Ali

seems like they are at it in Mare Street, JD sports again. I guess the Police will just need to go around and arrest anyone who has new pair of flasshy trainers and can't prove where thye got them.

Roy

This site seems to have good coverage of what's going on (and were covering things last night until the wee hours) <http://thewestlondoner.wordpress.com/>;

Idoru

I live on Turnpike Lane and work in Wood Green. Many shops closing early or shut all day today. I suspect the loss of revenue is going to hit some of those retailers pretty hard. To be honest, I often sympathise with the rioters in these situations. They're often society's poorest, the disenfranchised and those that feel totally unrepresented by government. This is the only way they feel like they'll be heard. But in this case it just seems like an excuse for violence and to pick up some new trainers or a big TV.

Marquis

Misscara, thanks for the address. I have posted it as status update on Facebook and hope that way it will get around a bit.

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miss annie

Looks like hatches are being battened on SGR too. Grim. Stay safe folks.

Ed B

Yes, SGR is eerie... Sitting in my flat hoping it stays quiet around here!

miss annie

This... <http://i55.tinypic.com/21cxauf.jpg>; Found on the pavement in Tottenham, suggests that these might not just be spontaneous acts of destruction and thuggery. They are clearly quite well prepared.

tharobc

that's really sinister. This is all very baffling. Can't see what, other than a fatality, will actually stop it.

dion

That flyer is an old one from recent student demos so not really sinister.

miss annie

It quite specifically says Tottenham on it so I guess they did a quick cut and paste job on what was already quite a nasty thing. If one is ashamed to be identified for doing something then perhaps it's time to question why youwant to do it - whether that be students behaving like three year olds or this current group of yobbos. This whole thing is horrifying and depressing. People being burnt out of their home and wanton destruction and stealing. there is no excuse and no justification for this.

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Roy

What, on our Victoria Rd????

andy

Just walked up Stroud green road. Very quiet.

Colette

Not a single manned till open in Tesco at 8.30. Only the express checkouts. Although of course that could well be totally unrelated...

Roy

Definitely seems a bit quiet, but otherwise fairly normal. Sugar Lounge, Pappagone, La Poretta, The Convenience Store all were open and there were a few people about. Definitely fewer people about than normal (and ditto in the bars and restaurants - Pappagone was the only place that seemed reasonably busy)

Cookie

I can only imagine what you guys at SGR and surrounding areas are going through at the moment. To all of you, please take care, and keep safe!

unaesthetic

Shoot them. Shoot them all in the fucking face. I'm not joking. I've never been more in favour of brute force policing than I am right now. Kettle them and let them "fall down the steps to the cells".

unaesthetic

I should add that i consider myself *very liberal* but think that liberalism should be backed up with police batons and capital punishment.

Roy

I've seen or heard no trouble at all in SG. Yes, SG and the establishments on SGR were much less busy than usual - but actually that seems to have been true everywhere, I think. Certainly it was noticeably less busy than usual in central London when I left work at 7pm. roy

Brodiej

If anyone saw the Apprentice this year, here is a stonewall example of a core demographic that would love an "Emergency Biscuit". When rioting, they got hungry and needed a snack. In this instance they didn't pay, but the potential market is currently huge. [A whole shopping centre and they went for the biscuits](http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk:80/news/more_details_emerge_over_disturbances_in_islington_last_night_1_987802)

andy

I hope there's a long conversation about policing by consent and governing by consent that comes out of this. It can't be right that there are kids eulogising drug dealers and wannabe gangsters. It can't be right that they are prepared to stab each other because of their postcode. For lots of reasons, an underclass has been created and these kids don't see the consequences of looting and rioting, for themselves or for the communities they are destroying. And the whole of the point is that you can't "stamp down" on crime when it gets like this - there are too many people and not enough police. It might work as a short term fix, but the long term problem is still there. We live in a city where significant numbers of people think lawless criminality is a reasonable option for them, and all that has been missing is the opportunity to exercise it. How do you fix that mindset?Especially when the reputations of all of those institutions that you could traditionally use as role models - from the police to parliament - have all taken a beating. It looks like everyone's at it, so it can't be wrong, can it? It's tragic, because It looks like we've created a 'fuck you' society from top to bottom and these are the consequences. And the only long term way forward is with mutual respect, shared values, stronger communities and real opportunities. For example, pick a tough question: what would it take to fix relations between the police and the people in Broadwater Farm? It just feels like we've all been making the weather and we're surprised now it's raining. I hope everyone's safe.

Roy

@andy: very well put We need to stop focussing solely on the "lock up the criminals" response and look at the underlying causes. That said, it was only a matter of time. I wasn't expecting this specifically, but I did think that riots on the streets in most Western countries would be the ultimate outcome of our economic situation. roy

Tallboy

We've spent enough over many years trying to understand the "underlying causes". We could blame the parents. We could blame the government. We could blame ourselves. But none of this will change the fact that they are lazy, greedy, violent, ignorant, looting louts. And we'd be better off without them in our society before they can breed. Let's not waste more money by locking them up. Shoot them, hang them or drop them in the ocean. But please, let's not try to make friends and understand them. We'll never change them.

andy

You're clearly right. Thinking never helps. The best way to tackle unthinking idiot rage is with unthinking idiot rage of your own. That will definitely make things better.

Tallboy

Perhaps I am unthinking. And perhaps I'm an idiot. But I'm sick and tired of efforts to try and help these people, to try and understand where they're coming from and put them on the right track. Your "thinking" hasn't and won't work. Certainly not in our lifetimes.

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Ed B

Thought it was a twitter 'joke' but then smelled burning... can't really see but something's going on up there.

charlieboy

Well said Tallboy

checkski

Well said, Andy.