Riots

miss annie

If anyone wants to do something practical to help how about this <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14456857>; I know what you mean @Brodiej, my sister (who lives in a village in Essex) honestly thinks that every street in London is on fire and that we are all being murdered in our beds. And she says 'hun' - it's a very Essex thing.

Four Eyes

Horney Journal just tweeted it was the back of the computer shop next to the post office/Tesco where a fire broke out last night.

Misscara and I (in pyjamas) went to have a look at around 1.40 am as I could smell smoke and hear some commotion from UTP. SGR was cordoned off and there were 3 fire engines.

I recognised the hoodie scum who were hanging around and earlier in the evening they'd been sniffing around round the back entrance to Tesco. It was the usual suspects who come from the council flats in between Osbourne and Marquis Roads. They were throwing bottles earlier in the evening on Victoria Road. Mindless idiots.

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andy

@tallboy - I'm sorry I hurt your feelings whilst you were calling for mass executions

andy

@tallboy - I'm sorry I hurt your feelings whilst you were calling for mass executions

Four Eyes

Misscara, I wasn't insinuating that you were in your pyjamas on UTP. Heaven forbid (even though I have photographic evidence to prove otherwise!).

'Pasty faced little hooded runt' (nicely put) and cronies were sniffing around the back of the bookies opposite the Park Tavern earlier in the evening.

andy

Reports that every Met cell is now full and prisoners are being taken out of London. Police massively overstretched, close to breaking point. Given the reported "success" of turkish groups in dalston last night, perhaps a 'reclaim the streets' style anti-curfew is in order?

andy

Reports that every Met cell is now full and prisoners are being taken out of London. Police massively overstretched, close to breaking point. Given the reported "success" of turkish groups in dalston last night, perhaps a 'reclaim the streets' style anti-curfew is in order?

miss annie

There's a collection point outside Budgens in Crouch End where you can drop off toiletries, clothes etc. to help families whose homes have been destroyed by rioters.

Tallboy

@ andy - you didn't hurt my feelings. You don't agree with my opinion. I don't agree with yours. It's your blog and you can use whatever patronising and sarcsastic tone you want.

Arkady

I’m not talking vigilantism, but is it time that local communities organised to defend their streets and assist the police? The Turks and Kurds appear to have quashed the problem all the way along the Green Lanes corridor from Dalston to Palmers Green. Some cheery groups of hoodless locals patrolling up and down Stroud Green Road could be just the trick. Ideally led by a drum-beating Miss Annie. The knitting group could provide scarves as an ersatz uniform. I’m envisaging something like The Scouring of the Shire. I’m serious, actually. I strongly agree with everything Andy has said here, but it would be nice to quash the nihilism before we tackle the structural issues.

Arkady

I see andy beat me too it on the ‘anti-curfew’ thing too. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

miss annie

Where do we meet? I don't have a drum but I have a rather good tambourine and I could borrow recorders from the kids next door. I am highly impressed by the shopkeepers who were out keeping their shops safe.

Emma

The thing about the Turkish and Kurdish shop owners defending their property is - it's no solution. These people are looking after their own interests just as the looters are looking after their own interests. OK, so maybe they repelled attacks last night but what about tonight, or any time soon? Turf wars or retribution are not outside the realms of possibility. It was briefly exciting to know that <i>someone</i> was able to stop the apparently unstoppable looters but local resistance isn't the answer.

It'll end in tears.

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Arkady

@Emma - As Andy suggested above, there is often no distinction between one's own interests and the communal interest. This strikes me as such an occasion. And I'm suggesting defending everybody's shops, anyway. Perhaps we need to be the ear-clipping parents here.

miss annie

I stole some sweets from Woolworths when I was about nine and I wasn't allowed ice cream for THE WHOLE SUMMER when my mum found out (my sister shopped me). I think our benefits system should bear some of the blame for the fact that people think they can just take without giving anything back. There are a lot of decent, hard working people who are claiming benefits due to redundancy and the current economic climate etc, but there are a lot of people who are perfectly happy to just take the cash and do shag all to contribute to society. I really dislike this culture of entitlement. And regardless of what you are taught by your parents, everyone knows that what is being done is wrong.

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Margolada

in line with this, have you seen the bbm messages that were apparently sent out - the Guardian said: One BBM broadcast posted on Monday evening appeared to urge protesters to go looting in Stratford, east London. "If you're down for making money, we're about to go hard in east london tonight, yes tonight!!" it said. "I don't care what ends you're from, we're personally inviting you to come and get it in. Police have taken the piss for too long and to be honest I don't know why its taken so long for us make this happen. We need a minimum of 200 hungry people. We're not broke, but who says no to free stuff. Doesn't matter if the police arrive cos we'll just chase dem out because as you've seen on the news, they are NOT ON DIS TING. Everyone meet at 7 at stratford park and let's get rich."

Emma

@Arkady - I know you have good intentions. It's just not a good idea.

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Emma

If there was any way to stop you becoming a target, then sure, go for it. But you're going out unprotected to face up to a group of people who literally do not give a fuck. It makes us all feel better to compare them to kids stealing sweeties from Woolies and needing a clip round the ear, but the reality is a lot less twee than that. Obviously I understand the desire, and I think it's a natural and proper one, to stand up to people trying to ruin the place you love, and show you're not afraid, but it's crazy to put yourself in harm's way to prove a point.

djmattyoung

I'm with Misscara and Arkady this is our community too. Could you imagine how devastating it would be to the area and families if one of the many shops, bars/pubs or restaurants on SGR got smashed up or even worse burnt down? Not to mention the safety of the residents who live above these premises. Stand up to these hoodlums.

Emma

Yes, I would be devastated. I was gutted last night watching my hometown, Croydon, up in flames. But I know that if I had been there, giving those people resposible a right old ticking off would have made no difference, except land me in hospital.

If there's a way to stand up to people who are intent on destruction that won't result something much worse than a smashed window, I'd like to know what that is, basically.

Ali

Boris Johnson has spoken in Clapham Junction. His message to the rioters is: "They will face punishments they will bitterly regret." Does anyone know what the likely sentence is for looting, it used to be the death penalty but I guess now it is probably an electronic tag. I wonder if they have enough of them to go around as they seem to have run out of cells in London. I guess we will also be having emergency courts to deal with the people charged which I believe is only around a 100 out of the 450 arrested in London do far. I also do wonder how all this fits in with the Big Society idea?

tosscat

I don't want the uk to be like scandinavia or japan.

Brodiej

Whats your idea then Ali?

Arkady

To be in a bigger group, and to not back down. Everyone freeloads off the police for their security, right now the police can't cope. I'm suggesting we stop freeloading. I understand your concern Emma. No-one is suggesting that anyone be compelled to make a stand. But there are more of us than there are of them, and if everyone stopped hiding in their homes this would stop very quickly. But it does require concerted action rather than individual have-a-go heroes. Makes me with that SG.org had a twitter feed that local residents and businesses could use to rally support. In the meantime… #stroudgreen?

Ali

Who freeloads on the Police everyone pays taxes