Stroud Green - Planning Applications

Sutent

Some of the people around me don't have enough money to eat despite working hard. Let alone the luxary goods your talking about even at weatherspoons.

dion

"Despite working hard"? I am talking about our perception of relative costs, nothing more.

Sutent

The relative cost is that the deli is only affordable to a certain section of society

miss annie

We shop on a budget, but I've recently taken to buying stuff at Fortnum & Mason in the evenings. After 7pm it's a bargain bonanza, except they don't sticker anything. You have to sort of loiter about looking at foods you like and they might mention that something is discounted. And by discounted I mean cheaper than Tesco. I like the cat and mouse of it.

dion

So what amount of disposable income per day makes someone unable to fully participate in society? A Big Mac meal costs £4.39. Fish and chips over £6. Socks from The pound shop £1. A packet of cigarettes over £7 now but please contradict me on that. Cash bus far£1.50 What particular things in the deli are unaffordable in this context?

Sutent

@dion. Please stop being so ignorant

dion

?

miss annie

So, say you budget £4 per day for dinner for two. Do you think that that would stretch to deli treats? If you regularly smoke, drink and get takeaways then it's just a choice based on personal taste as to what you spend that disposable cash on. McDonalds or pecorino. If you don't have the spare tenner a day in the first place then, yes, the deli (and all the junk you listed), is unaffordable. I suppose it is incomprehensible to anyone who has a lot of money that others might make a choice between a little piece of deli cheese for a fiver or a Tesco chicken that will make two dinners and sandwiches. Aside from food choices, less than a fiver a day disposable income means that you wouldn't meet your friends to go to the pub, cinema, theatre, an exhibition, or go shopping and for lunch, you don't get on a train to the seaside or make unnecessary trips anywhere. You might not visit your family so often because the train fare is expensive. You might not even go to a do at someone's house because you can't afford to take a bottle. The socks are three pairs for 99p in the 99p shop.

ADGS

Why would anyone, especially on a budget, pay cash bus fares? It's not like you need to have connections or a huge cash investment to get an Oyster.

miss annie

Oyster is a necessity for anyone in London. Cash bus fare is £2.50, Oyster £1.40.

dion

So, please forgive my ignorance, but in the case of people who have no disposable income as miss annie describes, surely ANY shop selling anything on SGR which isn't a fundamental basic is therefore "only affordable for a certain section of society" and not just the deli?

miss annie

Yes. There are plenty of people in SG who only use Tesco, and not much else on SGR.

dion

Do you think they have more disposable income than people who can only afford to shop at lidl?

JoeV

Isn't it often the case that affordable / non-affordable is less about actual cost and more about perceived value and what people are willing to pay? I think that's what dion is getting at.<div><br></div><div>Even people on low incomes make choices about what they spend their money on, even if it's a limited amount (of both cash and choice).<br><div><br></div><div> </div></div>

Arkady

@sutent - attack the argument, not the man, or you lose the moral high ground.<div>No doubt there is a small minority who have absolutely no disposable income.  The vast majority of people may not be able to afford to shop at the deli every day (or eat at Season every week), but it's nice to have them there for special occasions.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">No doubt there are also those who choose to spend what little disposable income they have on cheap vodka and cigarettes rather than a nice pecarino and some rye bread. I won't criticise that decision, as its the one that I would make myself.</span></div>

miss annie

Agreed, as I said, it's decision making that happens every day. You just have more choices with more cash. Lidl not always cheaper than Tesco, but shops at Lidl nowadays. I wouldn't pay more than £1.50 for a loaf but I'm not a big bread fan, I do like a cream cake from Dunn's once a month though. That, to me, is a good way to spend £2.

Ali

<p>Jamie shows you how to do what  miss Annie is talikng about here.</p> <p><a href="http://www.channel4.com/programmes/jamies-money-saving-meals">http://www.channel4.com/programmes/jamies-money-saving-meals</a></p>; <p>His show is on once  a week on C4 and does give you some great ideas.</p> <p>Tescos is expensive, they tell me each time I go there that they have overcharged me by giving me back the difference  to spend next time.<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p> <p>Use the local vegie shop also the Convenince store near to La Porcheta has changes and now has a great range of veggies at decent prices. Even removed the window to show it off. Going to be cold in there during the winter.</p> <p>I don't think the Parmasan in the  Intalian Deli is any more expensive than Tescos but way much better</p> <p> </p>

Arkady

Ali makes an excellent point - you often get better value for money if you avoid the supermarket.  I know Annie has made the same point in the past too.<div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I now have a parmesan craving.</span></div>

JoeV

<span style="font-style: normal;">The Parmigano at the Italian deli is much better than Tesco </span><i>and</i> it is also more expensive. The Italian deli on SGR is very good but there are other delis where you can get comparable products that are less expensive.

dion

I think it is because they insist everything is organic and charge an appropriate premium

Ali

and it is very very good

Sutent

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">So much food is wasted it is so sad. It would be good if we could have one of these on SGR. It would attempt to try and re use much of the food that supermarkets throw away</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/09/goldthorpe-social-supermarket-community-shop-food-poverty</font></div>;

miss annie

The Mind cafe used to use supermarket waste to do a vegetarian lunch every week. Annoyingly it was on a Friday when most folk are at work. There is still one of those lunches in the Park cafe. Also when folk are at work.

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dion

Oh I thought they ran out of funding

HelenM

They had a short-term funding issue. And also a real problem explaining their 'offer' to people. They didn't mind how well-off the customers were - the twin aims of the project were to use up surplus food and to offer training to people in catering skills with the aim of improving their job prospects. They needed more customers to survive. So the well-off people who stayed away thinking it 'wasn't for them' actually contributed to the demise of the project...

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HelenM

You may have your own view of "yummy mummies and lap toppers" but the people running the cafe welcomed them. They welcomed anyone with a fiver to buy lunch. They needed the money to offer training / rent the space / buy store cupboard essentials. They had a promise of further funding but they couldn't get over the short-term gap. They really did seem to have a problem explaining what objectives were - and seemed to come up against people who actively rejected their business case and preferred to jeer at the customers...

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miss annie

This was the statement from FoodCycle, who ran the project. http://www.harringayonline.com/m/event?id=844301:Event:412169