Finsbury Park Station/City North Development

fabruce

Finally there are barriers working. Much better if the station is less busy because fare evaders can't get in.<div>It's insane really that people are refusing to pay for public transport.</div><div>The barriers seemed quite quick to me, apart from the usual wide one which is for people with luggage . Well there are two of those and therefore i think people will try and push to evade fare. </div><div><br></div><div>Anyway good first step.</div><div><br></div><div>What is the plan then for well terrace entrance? </div>

gardener-joe

...

Arkady

@fabruce - it will be closed to allow the City North works (including the new western ticket hall/entrance). When that will happen, and  how long we will be lacking a northern entrance, is currently unclear. I'm writing an article on this subject for LondonReconnections*, and so hopefully I will have some updated information soon.<div><br></div><div>*which is a real change of tone from the articles on the Kurds and Syria that I've been churning out recently.</div>

TheMimsy

<br><div>I often go through the tunnel from Wells Terrace to Seven Sister Road to catch the 29.  I guess this is no longer possible?</div>

Arkady

Not without paying a single fair. Unless you have a travelcard.

krappyrubsnif

It will presumably mean the tunnels are a bit less busy. Not only fewer freeloaders, but people without Oystercards will now have to walk round to get between Seven Sisters and the W7 stop. Technical note. Hypothetically, if I use an Oystercard to go in by the W7 stop and then straight out again at Seven Sisters Road, will it let me out, and will I be charged?

Arkady

You'll be charged for a single journey if you don't have a travelcard. If you have no PAYG on your Oyster or no travelcard they won't let you out.

Donna

I always felt safe walking through the tube tunnel late at night. Think it's a shame.

therattle

I have been through the new entrance in the morning when buses have been disgorging passengers and it's slow and blocked. The location of the assistance booth against the left wall about 2 metres from the gates doesn't help; now that the windows have been closed it could be moved further back to allow for freer access to the gates on the left. <br>

poxy

Not so sure about the minimum fare charge mentioned above. On one of the days of the tube strikes about a year ago I went to Crouch Hill station to catch an Overground train (unaffected by the strikes) very early one morning. It soon became obvious that the Overground was a no-go. I swiped out and went home thinking I could wait until mid-morning to go into work. The charge for swiping in and then out of CH? £7.50! The fee for an open-ended journey. It took many phone calls to get that charge cancelled.

miss annie

You can use contactless debit or credit cards if you have no Oyster - charges Oyster rates. I do it more than Oyster now, no faff.

poxy

Using contactless credit/debit cards all count as single journeys, so if you reach the daily maximum you will continue to be charged for every journey, I believe. Can anyone show me anything to show that ain't right?

miss annie

<p>No idea, I only go to Piccadilly and back most days and walk round town from HQ.</p>

jona

<font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;">poxy: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/how-fares-are-charged?intcmp=19856</span></font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><p style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 22.95px; color: rgb(45, 48, 57); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">When you use your contactless payment card to travel you will be charged an adult-rate pay as you go fare each time you make a journey. All the features of <a href="https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/ticket-types/on-oyster" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 22.95px; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(32, 112, 176); cursor: pointer;">pay as you go</a> on Oyster are available if you use a contactless payment card, and you also benefit from daily and <a href="https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/what-is-capping" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 22.95px; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(32, 112, 176); cursor: pointer;">Monday to Sunday capping</a>.</p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 22.95px; color: rgb(45, 48, 57); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">We calculate the best fare for each day or week, depending on where and when you have travelled, by:</p><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; margin: 0px 0px 25px 25px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 22.95px; list-style-position: outside; color: rgb(45, 48, 57); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 22.95px;">Adding up the cost of all the journeys you make each day and applying a daily cap if appropriate</li><li style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 22.95px;">Adding up the cost of all the journeys you make in each week and applying a Monday to Sunday cap if appropriate. For capping, a week always ends on a Sunday, although a cap will be applied earlier if you reach one</li></ul></div>

Papa

Contactless is actually better for pay as you go, as you benefit from the daily cap and a weekly cap that's no higher than a weekly travelcard (the latter you don't get on Oyster)

Ali

Apparently there may be an app availble soon which  will let you know how full the next three trains will be on the south bound Vic line. Handy when it is busy.  Not sure if the rule that  for  the trains that arrive at  a time with an 8 in it ie  8mins, 18 mins etc are less full  as they used to start at SS still applies after the work at Walthamstow in August.

NorthNineteen

I see E Mono now has a stall next to the w7 bus stop.  That's not going to help my weight....  Have they been turfed out of the arches?

fabruce

I have seen that as well. Does anyone know what is happening around mono? What will happen to the car wash / veg store and barber? They surely won' stay long i guess once the development is on its way?<div><br></div><div>And what about the other building next to the station? I don't remember the name, but it's between John Jones and FP station. Is that going to be demolished?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks :-)</div>

NorthNineteen

No plans for that area (car wash/barber) yet - there was a planning application a while ago but it was refused (and was temporary anyway I suspect).  Those buildings are owned by the same developer as City North so only a matter of time before something is planned.

Arkady

Re E Mono - all the shops currently in the Finsbury Park Station arches are being turfed out so that the structure can be refurbished. Once the works are done all the arches will be re-let, so I guess there's no guarantee that E Mono will return. Fingers crossed though.

Arkady

<div style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;">I just received the latest update from TfL on the station works. Some key text:</span><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;"><br></span></div><div style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">Wells Terrace </span><br></div><div><span style="font-weight: bold;">Update regarding Wells Terrace entrance</span><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br></span></div><div style="font-weight: normal;">The installation of new ticket gates has been completed and the gates went into operation on Thursday 3 December. Finsbury Park Tube station is now fully gated at each entrance, which will help staff to manage flows of passengers through the station and result in the smoother and more efficient operation of the station.<br><br>London Underground is working collaboratively with City North to put in place a developer agreement for a new Western station entrance. A developer agreement has not yet been signed with City North. As such, no date can yet be confirmed for the closure of the Wells Terrace station entrance.<br></div><div style="font-weight: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal;">We want to minimise disruption to users of the station from the works and closure of the Wells Terrace entrance and will roll out a full programme of communications to inform passengers of when works will take place and how to access the station using the other entrances in good time ahead of the closure.<br></div><div style="font-weight: normal;"><br></div><div><span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From late-January 2016 to mid-September 2016 - </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Closure of middle stairs serving northbound London Underground</span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;"> platforms</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;"><br></span></div><div>From Sunday 31 January 2016 to mid-September 2016, the middle stairs (1/601) serving the northbound Piccadilly and Victoria line platforms will be closed. This is to allow for the excavation of a new lift shaft to the northbound platforms as part of the programme to deliver step free access at Finsbury Park Tube station in mid-2018.<br><br>During this period, station control measures will be put in place to manage passenger flows through the station. These will initially be implemented in the afternoon and evening peak only, from 15.30 to 20.00. <br><br>Teams have already been working in the disused areas of the station to enable the lift shaft excavation. This has included the installation of concrete beams to support a crane.<br></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-weight: bold;">How will the station operate?</span><br></div><div><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br></span></div><div>During the period of that station control measures are implemented each afternoon and evening peak (15.30 to 20.00), a station management will be implemented where required. <br><br>Passengers exiting the station from the northbound Piccadilly and Victoria line platforms will exit via the spiral staircase (1/632) only. Passengers will then turn left and pass along passageway 3. Passengers will then proceed down the short set of stairs to passageway 4 and exit the station to Station Place. The rest of the station will run as normal. <br><br>The station will operate as normal at all other time, unless congestion requires the implementation of further station control measures.<br><br>The middle stairs to the southbound Piccadilly and Victoria line platforms will be closed in early 2017 to allow for the excavation of a new lift serving the southbound platforms. Updates on this closure will be given closer to the time.<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">---</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">So, that will be fun.</span></div>

fabruce

this is going to be a total nightmare.<div><br></div><div>fun times ahead :-(</div>

NorthNineteen

I don't understand, so are both sets of stairs being closed?  Also, the spiral stairs aren't gated are they?<br>

miss annie

That is crazy. Finsbury Park has one of the shortest staircases on the whole system. I don't understand the obsession with putting a lift in.

gardener-joe

...

miss annie

<p>I did manage it with crutches and a plaster cast on last December.</p><p>I probably would not tackle the tube at all in a wheelchair. Even if you can get to the platform how would you get on a train? there's often a step or gap and then they are so completely packed most of time that there's no room for a wheelchair. It would be hellish!</p><p>Buses have big, designated wheelchair spaces, ramps, and drivers that can assist with boarding. Plus a better variety of routes and a 24hr service.</p>

sg_mike

I hope they have a rethink about the station operation. The "normal" staircase at the south end of the platforms is more efficient at getting people out. Given TfL mucked up the pedestrian modelling of the pavement under Stroud Green Road (by not recognising the difference between average hourly and peak capacity) you would have hoped they'd have done this properly this time. But good news about the lifts. It'll make a big difference to how well the station operates, as it'll help people with buggies and luggage to avoid the stairs during peak times. Even though the costs of level access are often massive at old stations, I've seen enough situations where disabled people have had to sacrifice huge amounts of dignity that I'm convinced in most cases it's well worth the money spent

miss annie

<p>I have very little faith in my fellow commuters willingness to make space for a wheelchair on a packed morning Victoria Line. Time will tell I guess.</p>

Papa

It wasn't until I had kids that I realised quite how inaccessible a lot of the tube network is. It's very difficult for a parent travelling alone, be almost impossible for someone in a wheel chair.<div><br></div><div>A lift would help a lot of people with buggies and wheelchairs - and Finsbury Park is a second tier major mainline station / tube hub.<div><br></div><div>Although as Miss Annie says woe betide those who try to make that journey during busy times and expects help from fellow commuters.</div></div>

miss annie

Indeed. I'm sure every member of on forum gives up their seat when a pregnant lady, eldery or disabled person, or person with very young children boards the train, but a lot of people do not. I reckon it would require at least squashed in commuters to leave the train if a person in a normal sized wheelchair wanted to manoeuvre on, plus someone to help with the step up or down to the train. I don't believe people would get off.