Article 50

Ali

I have just e-mailed our Horsey & Wood Green MP to ask her to represent the overwhelming view of her constituents and vote against triggering Article 50 next week. It won't change much but it is a symbolic move that shows she is representing us. She did last time but it is likely that Labour will try and impose a three line whip. You Libdems out there must be hoping she doesn't vote against!

Ali

The e-mail address is catherine.west.mp@parliament.uk takes 5 mins to do

grenners

Brexit is going to happen so I think we need to serve Article 50 and get on with it and make the best of it. The deal will need 27 countries approval plus two houses of parliament so no need to subvert democracy by ignoring the people. Serving Article 50 was effectively decided by the referendum.

Arkady

I largely agree with Grenners, but I think the final deal ought to be put to another referendum. I suspect we'll end up as Singapore with nuclear weapons, which polling suggests isn't something that a majority of leave voters were expecting.

Sutent

I cant see the 27 European countries giving us a good deal. They will make an example out of us. Brexit is an absolute disaster for science, tech and the NHS.

TheMimsy

I am very concerned about the rights of EU nationals over here and UK nationals in other EU countries. This is truly a nightmare...

Arkady

My work is in professional regulation, and I can see it's going to take a decade or so to be able to remedy our reliance on mutual recognition of qualifications and free movement, if it goes that way. Real risks of serious workforce shortages and lowered standards if there isn't a well-considered transition period. I really can't see how farming and the meat export industry aren't going to be totally screwed in the medium term regardless. But then perhaps the likes of Liam Fox will turn out to be the sages of our era after all...

Mimsy

@grenners - - agree completely. Unless we want the American version... Burn the cities down when democracy doesn't produce what you want... attack the white people, who are obviously responsible for everything, and generally start murdering and killing on a wholesale basis. "More than 750 people have been murdered in Chicago in 2016, the police said, a 58 percent increase over last year and the highest total since 1997. There have been more than 3,500 shootings in the city this year. Over Christmas weekend, at least 60 people were shot, 11 fatally, according to The Chicago Tribune"

FabiBean

I doubt these murders happened as a reaction to the elections...

Ali

Just had a quick response our MP she will not be voting for it. Cameron called the referendum to try and manage the 92 or so hard line Tory Brexiteers and failed miserably unfortunately for the rest of us. It is the same 95 that Mrs May is pandering to as she wants to stay PM. They also know that there is a window of opportunity with the state of the current Labour party which they will take advantage to ram this through. JC just seems incapable of pushing back on the government in any effective way. This affects the whole of the UK population only 27% of the population voted to leave, 25% vote to remain, 48% either didn't vote or couldn't. Hardy an overwhelming endorsement of hard Brexit that is being run by the 92. Mrs May is also an unelected PM (except by very few in the Tory party, 29 I think) and the referendum was only advisory although it has been talked into being binding again by the 92. Mrs May will not have an election so we are stuck with what we got so I don't think you should fall over and accept this has to happen. She wont survive as PM until 2020 and if she calls an early election by being forced too she could well loose her seat as her constituency was pretty pro Remain. I suspect she will be worried about being decapitated during an election. We would just then end up with another unelected PM as the Tory chose who that would be.

HolbornFox

Violence in South Chicago is not a new thing, and has literally nothing to do with the recent election.

Take a look into the the drill music scene.

krappyrubsnif

This is just a coup d’etat by an unrepresentative, mendacious and ideologically motivated elite of xenophobic twats. Parliamentary democracy of 750 years undermined and the public led by the nose into cutting its own collective throat. It should not be happening this way. Don’t accept it. No surrender!

maclondon

The irony of the whole BREXIT thing is how many of the things which the Brexiteers hate about the EU were things started by the UK- single market, expanded EU to bring in the Central Europe, Human Rights and even the original European charter was written by UK experts after WW2 - it's a bit like organising the party and then not liking the people who show up! Ignoring Parliament is typical Conservative policy - Article 50 can be triggered but despite the whining from the Brexiteers, once the post EU terms are clear and the impacts of higher inflation, job losses, NHS in free fall and endless disputes with the EU on the final terms may change people's views or at least realise that Brussels was not so much the problem as the UK Government!

krappyrubsnif

Quite

Ali

The Northern Ireland situation in the context of what is happening there and Brexet is also a worry

Mirandola

What Krappy said.

TheMimsy

@ Krappy very well put!

grenners

.......could be a pointless argument as depends on what supreme Court says next week....

therattle

@Mimsy "agree completely. Unless we want the American version... Burn the cities down when democracy doesn't produce what you want... attack the white people, who are obviously responsible for everything, and generally start murdering and killing on a wholesale basis. "More than 750 people have been murdered in Chicago in 2016, the police said, a 58 percent increase over last year and the highest total since 1997. There have been more than 3,500 shootings in the city this year. Over Christmas weekend, at least 60 people were shot, 11 fatally, according to The Chicago Tribune"" I don't know where to begin with this. Riots in America were not the result of democracy not delivering what people want - it was the result of people being systematically shut out of a system which purported to be democratic, a process which is still ongoing. As for "attack the white people", do you believe that only black people have been responsible for political violence in the US, or for gun and other violence generally? That seems to be what you're implying.

grenners

I think the message was that the ignored and unheard need to be listened to in order to preserve democracy and social order and the very recent predominantly black riots are an example which is a fact because America is very racially divided, I don't think there was any suggestion that only black people are responsible for such activities.

maclondon

While there is some truth in the unheard or 'mondeo man' 'JAMs' etc rejecting the current orthodoxy, I think this is oversold, particularly the election results were so close. What is much more telling is the divide between those who are not happy with change and those that are comfortable with it - whether it is globalisation, technology, equal rights, etc you see a real divide between which side they voted. You go back in history (such as the LUDDITES) and this divide is as old as the hills - but looking back with rose tinted colour spectacles is not realistic and we need to find new solutions to issues, not think that holding back the tide like King Canute is good policy!

miss annie

Yep, driverless trains for a start.

grenners

But with the likes of Brexit I think remainers should stop moaning and hurling insults (e.g. xenophobes) and try to make the most of it. Trying to vote down Article 50 before negotiations have even happened in my opinion is a backwards step for everyone as the more united we are the better we will do.

Ali

Grenner's do well ! We are a country of 64m negotiating with 724 m in Europe. A bit one sided I would say when it comes to a negotiation. Trump was pretty clear it is US first everytime. Any trade agreement with them will be a no negotiation sign here or no deal. You have to remember the referendum was advisory if it was binding a higher threshold of say 55% leave would have been required. Also only 26% of the UK population voted leave hardly a massive mandate. An MP is not delegate but representative who needs to balance all views not just that of the 26%

grenners

Ali sounds like you can't use 26% to make your point as it probably is so low that it includes children, those ineligible to vote (not British) and those who just don't bother and therefore don't have a view. Agree with you 52% isn't a very big lead but those are the rules. Agree a deal with the US will be more difficult than is being made out to be unless we want to drop our standards and allow chemical soaked Maryland chickens or similar. However, we have decided to leave the EU as we don't want ever closer union governed by an unaccountable remote foreign elite (Juncker would have been forced to resign by now if he was in Westminster) and with our laws usurped by judges in a Luxembourg court and we want to control our destiny not be told what to do and become increasingly marginalised as individuals and bullied as our ability to stand up for ourselves is systematically stripped away. This trumps (pardon the expression) conventional wisdom of the economic establishment who's predictions have not yet come to pass, indeed Mark Carney has now said the economic risk of Brexit is now greater for the EU than it is for the UK. Your right about how difficult it will be to do a deal with 27 other EU countries which is again a reason to leave......my prediction is that the EU will have to reform or die.

maclondon

Grenners, take a breath for some fresh air! Brexiteers sound like they lost the argument even though the vote went their way! Democracy is not about one side imposing their will on the other it is about finding a way forward which best meets different views, bound by basic ground rules of rights and responsibilities for everyone. The EU does need to reform but so does the UK and that goes way beyond BREXIT. Blaming the guy behind the tree (Brussels) is convienent but ultimately a road to ruin - the UK benefited greatly by joining the EU and we need to rebuild our relationship with the rest of Europe, not throw dispersions as it is not good negotiating tactic (unless your name is Trump!) - after all we are leaving the EU right?

grenners

UK may have benefitted in some ways in the past but now time to leave. Brussels is a reason to leave as it is incapable of following another path until it reforns and Junckers answer to Brexit was more union which I think shows that we are right to leave. We have always dragged Europe back from ever closer union so we should leave to allow them to get on with it. You are right blame is not the way forwards it's about making the best of a decide already made which is why I am upset about the idea of voting down Article 50. The delay this might cause may not be negative but is in my opinion unecessary. However, even if the Supreme Court rule against the government it is unlikely that parliament will vote against it even with rebel labour MPs.

Ali

Bill Clinton once said it is the economy stupid.

Brexit will cause a 5% drop on GDP that is 93800millon a year gone for ever start componding that over say 10years before we rejoin. It is very big loss to the economy and everything that depends on a strong economy will be shrunk even more than is currently happening.

Don't be fooled by the dog whistling brexit newspapers.

How does trade deals with places like Australia replace what we have a few miles away across the channel.

Farmers on the UK will be murdered by cheap meat and cereal from down under and the US.

It sounds like you may not be aware of what it was like in this country in the 1970s. It was described as the sick man of Europe being rescued by the IMF etc. We don't want to return yo that

grenners

.....just want my country back we will be perfectly fine.....we have been taken over by left leaning liberals for a long time maybe the pendulum is swinging back the other way....it's a good thing before the elite gets too comfortable and they have been ignoring their own people for years who are getting upset by open borders and mass immigration.....and it's not about the economy is getting control....might be a few teething troubles but long term we will shine.....I was sitting in a pub in Stroud Green and my mates admitted they were only voting to remain so they could possible retire to France or Spain and to avoid the possibility of their flat decreasing in value.

krappyrubsnif

Not so much a pendulum that's swinging as an effing great wrecking ball.

Ali

How have you got you country back parliament is being sidelined and things are beong determined by a small group people who are breaking Tory mainfesto from the last election.

The 92 as I said before will try and ram this through.

I assume you know that the great repeal bill will bring into UK law EU law. It then can be amended by Government ministers with no recourse to Parliament.

How is that bringing back control?