Shoreditchification

Sutent

Very sad to see... We seem to be going the same way in N4

NorthNineteen

So I was talking through with my wife about the changing shops along SGR since I've lived in the area (~4-5 years I think now) and it's quite interesting how much has changed in terms of gentrification in that time period.  NOte, i've only considered from the station area to Fiveways.<br><br>New shops/restaurants which imply gentrification:<br><br>2 x fruit and shops<br>1 x italian deli<br>1 x other deli (opening soon)<br>1 x trendy coffee shop<br>1 x lifestyle shop<br>1 x starbucks (opening soon)<br>2 x sainsburys local<br>1 x trendy restaurant (Rub)<br>1 x theatre<br><br>New shops which imply opposite of gentrification<br><br>1 x indian buffet (now closed)<br>1 x kebab restaurant<br>1 x kebab/fish and chips restuarant<br><br>There's been a few losses (I used the hardware shop that closed, meant to go to the Mauritian fish restaurant) and thought that late night wine bar place (now Ole Pera) looked alight.  I'm sure there are places that have also opened during this period.<br><br>When you think about it like this it makes you appreciate the pace of change.  All the more impressive for these openings during a recession - wouldn't suprise me if the pace of change picks up.<br><br><br>

Sutent

I was thinking on the weekend when all this gentrification started. I think the Front room cafe was the start of the slippery slope. I dont go to the front room cafe anymore as I think the food is too expensive. But before the front room I regulary used to go to the sunshine cafe opposite woodys

miss annie

There was a children's toy/baby shop for a while last year - now closed. Extravagant gift shop at Fiveways - opened just before Christmas. Season - been there two years? Holding the fort for t'other side are the countless corner shop style grocers, Mr Pak and his cosmetic emporiums and the worst Tesco for miles. Are you putting Ash's in the gentrified bracket? I don't it is, it's one of the cheapest places to buy fruit & veg in the area and they are in no way 'hipster'.

miss annie

Sunshine cafe has gone downhill dramatically! What used to be Crescent Cafe at the brow of the hill on Hornsey Rd is a good breakfast choice and can be accessed via Parkland Walk. Parkland Walk cafe also good.

NorthNineteen

Surely it was just a matter of time, being located between Highgate, Crouch End, Highbury with good transport links, access to parks and lots of Victorian housing?<br><br>When did Woodys close?<br>

NorthNineteen

Maybe Ash is just win-win then.  But look at the clienatle in there... definitely a substantial gentrified market.<br><br>I would say that gentrified does not equal 'hipster'.<br>

Sutent

I think Woodys closed in 2011. <div><br></div><div>I remember in the old days before 24 hr alcohol Woodys used to sell booze after hours. You would sneak the booze out in black bags. </div>

JoeV

<p class="MsoNormal">When I first moved to the area, I was happy with the choices on the Stroud Green Road and now, nearly ten years later, I’m still happy – not too posh and not too poor.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">I don’t see the changes as signs necessarily of gentrification, at least in the time I’ve lived here.</p><p class="MsoNormal">I don’t consider a fruit and veg shop to be trendy - it’s a necessity. And many of the shops are like-for-like replacements Sainsbury's supermarket replaced Woody’s supermarket. Hettie Holland replaced Home, and for every now successful restaurant (finger's crossed) replaced one that failed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">I think we're very lucky in that we have neighbourhood shops for neighbourhood people and ones that most people can afford.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The only thing that has changed, at least for me is that my rent has gone up over 50%. Is this gentrification when rent has gone up everywhere else in London too?</span></p>

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NorthNineteen

And of course one of the biggest changes: car repair office to furniture/lifestyle store.<br>

Sutent

I miss Chapter one. I had some very good nights in there. 

JoeV

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Part of the definition of gentrification is change but not all change is gentrification. I'm sorry, but I don't see the area being gentrified, unless you are comparing it to 20-30 years ago.</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">Interesting article from the Economist:</div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2013/09/mapping-gentrification</font></div>;

Mirandola

Dixie chicken didn't last long. I wonder what'll happen to the car repair place next to Nando's. Misscara, didn't you have a theory about it?

Papa

There's two separate things going on here.<br><br>1) Gentrification<br>2) A strong High Street - where people use independent shops and restaurants<br><br>Some things going on are trading off both, ie it's a good area to open Season in because of the combination.<br><br>Others would do well without number 1, ie Ash's fruit and veg - as it is a) good and b) open when people want to use it, such as after work.<br><br>On a scale of Tottenham to Upper Street, I'm pretty sure that Stroud Green Road would fall fairly far down the London gentrification scale. <br>

miss annie

Yes, I agree. Also agree with JoeV, like has replaced like in most cases, Season being the notable exception. Interesting how Muswell Hill, which was properly gentrified when I first moved over this way, is now looking bedraggled. Massive pound shop, empty shops all over the place but rental and house prices are still expensive compared to nicer places. They have no transport links apart from buses.

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Sutent

We will have 2 delis soon<div>Seasons which is not on the cheapest place to eat. Osteria Tufo on Fonthill Rd </div><div>Front room and vagabond - other cafes like Sunshine remain</div><div>Chaps and Dames expensive hair cuts for men with scissors </div><div>Organic fruit and veg shop SGR</div><div>Organic shop on Hornsey Rd </div><div>Theatre </div><div><br></div><div>The above is a sign of the sad but dynamic change in the area</div>

JoeV

<p class="MsoNormal">But how do you define gentrification? I'm just throwing this out there. It seems that some people use the term gentrification to describe any change they don’t like. <o:p></o:p></p>

Sutent

<span style="font-family: Arial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The restoration and upgrading of deteriorated urban property by middle-class or affluent people, often resulting in displacement of lower-income people.</span><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana;"><span style="font-family: Arial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div><font face="Arial"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I think this is clearly happening</span></font></div>

NorthNineteen

I define it as shift in an area (and in this case the retail offering) from one that is predominantly lower income to more catering for middle/upper income.<br><br>Maybe there is an element of replacing like with like but the new or refurbished restaurants/shops/cafes/pubs all seem to me to be catering to an increasingly affluent clientele.  I'm not saying that these people didn't previously exist in the area but I think the character of SGR is definitely changing considerabbly.<br><br>Having worked in regeneration across NW London I would say on a London-wide level SGR is performing extremely well and also has many characteristics of gentrification.  To me gentrification isn't a dirty word.<br><br>@miss annie I completely agree about Muswell Hill, it definitely feels like it is declining.  I don't really understand why.<br>

Sutent

What are these characteristics N19?

JoeV

@ stutent - Yes, but not on a large scale in N4, not in the time I've been here. <div><br></div><div>By that definition even areas like Knightsbridge, Belgravia and Kensington can be classified as being gentrified. Though I have sympathy for people being forced to move out of a neighbourhood they have a connection with, I find it hard to feel bad for someone who is merely rich being forced out by someone who is super rich. </div><div><br></div><div>It's complicated and I feel very ambivalent about it</div>

NorthNineteen

the change in the retail offering including the rise of the high street being a destination (i.e. more restaurants), growth in higher end retail offering (Concept and the Italian deli defnitely fall in that category), disappearance of money lending/pawn shops, lack of pound shops etc.<br><br>And the biggest sign, the opening of a theatre. Not sure what define 'gentrification' more than that?<br>

kreuzkav

Agree with North Nineteen.  The area is catering for a more affluent person.  The last few Friday or Saturday evenings I've walked up the road I was amazed at the clientele this road now attracts.  I saw it coming for years but it's finally here.<div><br></div><div>It's still a great place to live for now.</div>

Sutent

N19 - that is very logical and makes complete sense. 

ChangN4N6

As in village idiot. Chang

JoeV

I'm not arguing there haven't been changes in N4 in the past ten years, of course there have but I don't think they rise to the level of wholesale displacement of people or businesses - at least not yet.<div><br></div><div>The Italian Farmer's deli is high end, maybe that's a sign of things to come and it will last - or maybe it will be out of business in a year who knows. But SGR is doesn't rise to the level of a destination high street (thankfully).</div><div><br></div><div>We still have cafes, we still have pound shops, one of which has been labelled a blight on this very same website, it's still very mixed here and <span style="font-size: 10pt;">I still argue gentrification is in the eye of the beholder. </span></div><div><div><br><div><br></div></div></div>

NorthNineteen

Maybe it's always been the case but I was amazed that friends from Holloway, Manor House, the Ladder and now even Crouch End come to SGR for the pubs and restaurants.  These are affluent, young(ish) professionals.  Did SGR attract these type of people 5-10 years ago? I haven't been here long enough to know but my impression is not as much as now - I think this is as much due to the growth in popularity of the above mentioned places as much as anything else.<br>

JoeV

Well, I wouldn't know about more than 10 years ago but I would hazard to guess that there weren't as many restaurants to come in the past or at least ones worth travelling to on SGR. <div><br></div><div>The most popular is Papagone's, which was packed the when I first moved here and is still packed today. I don't think of it as high end, nor most of the other places that have opened with the exception of Season and Tufo. <div><br></div><div>Every single high street has more restaurants and attracts more people to them now because a) more people live alone; b) fewer people cook at home and c) restaurants and bars are two of the few cash businesses that can survive. <span style="font-size: 10pt;">That's economics, not necessarily gentrification.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I just don't like the term because I would think every one who contributes to this website and wasn't born here is a gentrifier of sorts and it seems something is labelled as gentrification when people are really saying 'I hate it because I can't afford it'.  </span></div></div>